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DC at odds with Cubmaster

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  • #46
    Classic response.....

    There's a reason UC's aren't supposed to have any attachments to the troops they are responsible for, and why district Scouters aren't supposed to be dual registered as a leader.

    BlueJacket, you have too much emotional attachment to this unit to see clearly.

    I never interfered in matters involving my sons, and my SM does likewise with his kids. We deal with each other's when the need arises.

    You need to find someone else to work with this pack. You need to get out of the way before your conflict of interest really causes damage.(This message has been edited by Eolesen)

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    • #47
      Ya know, it's the closest relationships that are generate the coldest glares.
      Learn from it as best you can. Make love not war!

      Ask for your most independent person to be UC of this particular unit. You'll want the CM to have someone who she can be frank with, and who can give guidance to both of you. Not merely be a voice over the Internet.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

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      • #48
        Going back to the original question, I know of several reasons why a Cubmaster or pack Committee may not want to have district events advertised directly to the scouts / parents.

        Some events involve a great deal of prep work by the pack. We plan about 3 camping trips in the fall, and another 3 in the spring. Our Committee has determined that generally speaking, we do not want to participate in the council camping event each fall, where 2000+ attendees are crammed into our council camp. Thus, we plan our own camping trips.

        If a DE goes recruiting boys at a school roundup, and tells the new parents about this awesome camping trip, that the pack has already decided not to attend, there's a big problem there. The new scouts are dissapointed, and the parents want to know why we can't just plan one more trip. (Mind you, they don't volunteer to plan the trip, prep the food, bring the gear... They want the existing leaders to do that for them.) That happens to us every year.

        Secondly, there may be other conflicting events. If we have a camping trip on a weekend, and the council has an event announced at the last minute, We would much rather have our boys attend the camping trip. If we have our calendar planned, (Long before the council calendar comes out in august) then we aren't going to reschedule everything just to accommodate late breaking plans for council events.

        If it is something that a) A family can sign up for and attend on their own thru the council and B) Requires no Pack leaders be present... I'd be ok with that. If you expect the pack to organize attendance, plan transportation, collect money, and register as a pack, you had darn well better get my permission before you volunteer me as a leader in a Pack to coordinate all that.

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        • #49
          We should have transparency in the scouting community! Invite C-SPAN to televise Roundtable meetings so the scouts will see what activities are available and what their Pack leaders vote for.

          Yours In Cheerful Service,
          Tim

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          • #50
            This thread reminds me of the following:

            God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

            The CM is basically in charge of their pack, for better or worse really. Nothing a UC or DC can do even if they think that it could be done so much better. This really goes for all levels of cub scouts, cubmasters thinking the den leaders should do better, den leaders thinking the cub master should do better and the cubmaster/DC/UC relationships. And as said in the prayer above, realize that there are some things you just CANT change. It has taken me a year to get used to this fact, and now I just concentrate on what I know that my family can change and make a great experience for the boys, which is at the den level. Everything else I just don't have control over Its a hard thing to swallow sometimes..

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            • #51
              A Commissioner should, in the course of his/her visits, talk with 4 principals about matters of the unit as a whole...
              - The Institutional Head/Executive Officer
              - The Chartered Organization Representative
              - The Principal Program Officer (CM, SM, Coach, Adviser)
              - The Committee Chair.

              Beyond them, he/she listens to unit serving Scouters, and may provide support and assistance on program matters. If a management matter, he/she should point them back to the principals.

              Roundtables, trainings, and events are a different story. Wide open for contact.

              That's how I try to do business

              Comment


              • #52
                Well old Bluejacket has not been back since this post.


                I wonder if he successfully destroyed the Pack?

                Comment


                • #53
                  [Raises Hand]

                  Ah, doesn't the Cubmaster work for the Pack, so to speak? In other words, shouldn't the Pack Committee Chair run the Pack like a chairman runs the Board,and the CM run the Pack like a CEO runs the company? And at the end of the day isn't the CM responsible to the Pack Committee much like a CEO serves at the will of a Board?

                  How does the Pack Chair feel?

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                  • #54
                    The thing that Bluejacket and most district scouters forget is they work for the units not the other way around.


                    He thinks/thought the CM works for him.

                    He was way out of line as a unit commisioner in his level of activity with the Pack. Now I have never met a good one, but I think a once a month visit would be enough, to count heads and check the facilities.....as if anyone has any questions.

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                    • #55
                      Mozartbrau,

                      If you follow the training materials, the Cubmaster, as the principal program officer, is responsible to THE COMMITTEE. He presents the program requirements, the Committee, working by consensus, provides him the support needed.

                      In a good world, the CM/CC better have each others' backs, or there will be conflict.

                      When I was a CC, the SM and I had 1/1 working breakfasts or late evening beers at each others home.

                      When I was a COR, if there was a disagreement between CC and SM, I usually decided in favor of the program guy!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Mozartbrau,

                        If you follow the training materials, the Cubmaster, as the principal program officer, is responsible to THE COMMITTEE. He presents the program requirements, the Committee, working by consensus, provides him the support needed.

                        In a good world, the CM/CC better have each others' backs, or there will be conflict.

                        When I was a CC, the SM and I had 1/1 working breakfasts or late evening beers at each others home.

                        When I was a COR, if there was a disagreement between CC and SM, I usually decided in favor of the program guy!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Wonder what the Pack Committee Chair thinks. Doesn't the CM report to that group like a CEO reports to a board?

                          While I agree the District folks may WANT more participation, it is up to the Pack to decide what they want to do. A good CM and Pack Chair will plan around District events (where possible) so that their boys can avail themselves of both the Pack program AND the District program.

                          Sounds to me like both the District people AND the Pack people in this example are forgetting the reason for their service: "For the boys!!"

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