No patrol activities without adults?

I don't know. I trust the boys to be excellent on their own, but all it would take is a single instance of something bad happening and in today's world of information and litigation a boy could be face effects of a mistake he made, which may not have happened under supervision, for the rest of his life.

Blue cards only? Unnecessary change and bureaucratic.

Journey to Excellence? I think it's great to have REAL and annually adapting standards of measure against ares of success for the Unit. Setting your own goals is just fluff and self-flagellation. If you think Journey to Excellence is useless bureaucracy, it's because you're only bothering to look at it once a year. It's tough for me to say that making a yearlong focus on achieving those metrics isn't going to make my Troop better.

I'd be less concerned about JTE if ScoutNet could auto-send to each SM/CC the dashboard data for their unit each month. It's not rocket science, it's a query into the database, some formatting, and an email.

Oh wait. BSA does it's IT in-house.

IT IS ROCKET SCIENCE

BTW, I'm no longer at the unit serving level. I do the commish and volunteer labor for the District thing.

I don't know. I trust the boys to be excellent on their own, but all it would take is a single instance of something bad happening and in today's world of information and litigation a boy could be face effects of a mistake he made, which may not have happened under supervision, for the rest of his life.

How about the three lost souls on the Ozark trail last weekend? Would they not have benefitted from crossing paths with a patrol of boys prepared to treat for hypothermia, build shelter, signal for rescue, and coordinate safe extraction?

BSA should be sued for abandoning real patrols and putting our fellow citizens at risk!

"" The National Advancement Team is mandating only use of the Blue Card ... which invalidates modern database record-keeping at scout camps during the summer season.""

Wow, would ya be surprised to learn that not every Summer Camp has a Computer system ??

John, I concur with your thoughts. The red tape keeps growing, and ironically, the fact that it's 2013 has had little impact on IT support the BSA provides to the unit leader.

Further irony: National presented Bill Gates with the Silver Buffalo in 2010. Can't tell what benefit Gates has provided the BSA in general, or specifically, before or since. Certainly hasn't been any support to the BSA's abysmal IT department.

IT aside, council offices seem to have a knack for poor office management procedures. Regardless of the medium, you can bet the council office will lose what you submit, or return it to you late. They perform at a level that is to their complete satisfaction.

Limits on Patrol activity always bum me out. OTH, I understand WHY the limits keep growing in today's world. I mean, parents of 16 and 17 yo Scouts want to stay at meetings to supervise their babies. Others, many others, won't get babysitters and go out because there's "no one they can trust". Our fear grows daily about leaving our children to experience ANYthing that is not completely scripted and controlled like a TV show.

I don't see problem with the blue card. After all, I can track progress any way I want as long it ends with a blue card record. As a MBC, I've been doing that for years. Is there something that prevents that?

As far as Bill Gates goes, and you've hit a nerve with me on this one, the fine folks at National explain their reasons best...
BSA Chief Scout Executive Bob Mazzuca was impressed with this former Scout's legacy.

Our country and its young people need great leaders and visionaries like Bill Gates, Mazzuca said. Service to others is at the core of what it means to be a Scout. The Silver Buffalo Award is our way of honoring individuals like Mr. Gates, who, through his incredible success, has provided tremendous opportunity and help to inspire others.

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2010/09/14/bill-gates/

So if I'm understanding this correctly, he USED to be a Scout, has NO CONNECTION to Boy Scouting now, but he's rich and gives (a lot) of money to help others through his foundation. To include more than $2mil to the Girl Scouts in the Pacific NW.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/grants/Pages/search.aspx

Of course the Silver Buffalo doesn't require any commitment to Boy Scouts...
"This award is Scouting's highest commendation of the invaluable contributions that outstanding Americans make to youth. The service must be national in scope and can be independent of, or directly through, the Boy Scouts of America."

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/SilverBuffalo.aspx

Kansas City John, Scouting.org still has the G2SS on-line which states:There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership.

This is advertised to the BSA as being updated quarterly so even though it has a 2012 copyright, I don't think it is more than three months old.

Where are you getting your facts? I'm not implying you are wrong, just wanted to know how this was communicated.

Acco,

Specifically, patrols are no longer to be on overnight activities without adult supervision.

A few of us find that patently absurd, as once a patrol reaches a certain level of maturity, overnight independent camping is to be expected. Boys are naturally camping independently at this age. The point of First Class is to teach them the basic skills and citizenship to do that sucessfully.

Again, how is that being communicated to the unit level? Via the commissioner staff only?

Via two means:
1) Biannual YPT training.
2) Tour plans that cannot be completed by youth members, unless two adults are attending.

In our neck of the woods, the commissioner staff has very little influence in the matter. If you have a dozen electronically trained adults whose only responsibility is the unit, who aren't hashing things out at roundtable, in a district with few UCs, well then edicts direct from national are all there is.

Now, the one positive of this is that if patrols do plan their outings independently, more adults will be called upon to support them. And, more involved adults is a good thing. But, very few adults are trained to camp at some distance from the boys. So, from a boy's perspective, the only "real" scouting happens outside the BSA when they call up their buddies for a weekend in the woods on their own.

ACCO,

No patrol camping without adults was done away with approx. 2 years ago, and is in the current G2SS found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf

on page 1.

Scoutings Barriers to Abuse
The BSA has adopted the following policies for the safety
and well-being of its members. These policies are primarily for
the protection of its youth members; however, they also serve
to protect adult leaders.

Two-deep leadership on all outings required. (Bold in original, italics ime) Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities (emphasis mine, note it does nto say outings, oversnights etc) when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. (again emphasis mine, note it's limited to day activities) Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities ( again emphasis mine to note that adults must be on camp outs); coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

Yes, Richard "Mark David Chapman" Bourlon celebrated the BSA's centennial by killing William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Method.

Has anybody looked at the BSA's actual by-laws to see if Bourlon got the BSA's morbidly obese "Always an Eagle" leadership experts to change them?

In the rest of the world Scouting was based on Baden-Powell, who insisted that every Scouter have a copy of the current rules and regulations.

The Bureaucracy of Scouting? What do you expect from an outdoor organization that bases its "Wood Badge" on office cubical theory?

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

I find it unfathomable to equate the the person who caused the end of a humans life to the person who ended patrol overnights

And that is if this guy did indeed end patrol overnights,I'll Kudus' word on it

And if you check, I was against ending Patrol Ovenights without adults

Currently from The Scoutmaster Handbook Most patrol activities take place within the framework of the troop. However, patrols may also set out on day hikes, service projects, and overnighters independent of the troop as long as they follow two rules:
The Scoutmaster approves the patrol activity.
The patrol activity does not interfere with any troop function.

A patrol activity without adult supervision should be allowed only when it has been thoroughly planned and the Scoutmaster is satisfied that the activity is well within the patrol members levels of training and responsibility. If the Scoutmaster has any doubts, encourage the patrol to reconsider its plans, or assign adults to accompany the patrol during the activity in question.

G2SS under Scouting's Barrier to Abuse section.

Two-deep leadership on all outings required. Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

Okay, these two resources seem to conflict. the SMHB is 2010 printing.(This message has been edited by acco40)