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No women allowed - is this usual?

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  • #31
    He practices putting up his tent, in the dark, alone, before even going on his first campout?

    I want your son (and you) in MY troop!

    Want to move to Northern California?

    - Oren


    • #32
      >>JD- We try to urge the parents not to attend the first two trips for a few obvious reasons.>advocate for the 'twit' a bit?
      As a troop, we would rather see NSP parents stay home for the first few mentioned in other posts they can become a crutch for some boys.


      • #33
        Well when a cubscout or new youth join the troop we usually talk to both the parent and the kid about or feelings about parents on the first two trips. In the past we didnt have the policy and have had issues withw eening dad from the scout. After the second trip the scout usually is the one to tell dad to go away. In my experience.


        • #34
          Barry wrote "I am a firm believer that a boy needs a male role model to learn the behaviors of a man. That also means the boy should learn how a man should behave around women. But my personal experience is moms are more often than not more concerned and protective of their sons role models than the dads. Sometimes the moms are wrong too. "

          Agreed! Although being wrong is a non-gender sorta thing:


          • #35
            Where there are boys there will always be a mother. I would like to think that there will never come a time when my son will not need me but that just isn't true because I spend a good part of every day teaching him self reliance. A boy led troop is a marvel to behold and I have high hopes of one day seeing my son in one (oldest is a wolf) but I won't be content to just hear about it when he comes home. The problem nowadays isn't that parents are too involved with their kids, it is just the opposite. A lot of Parents only learn about grades when the report card comes home. Not me, I am at the school everyday with the Cubs raising and lowering the flag. Most teachers and students know me by my first name. If there is a problem I want to be one of the first to know it, not the last. Scouts should be no different. If, as a mom/leader, I am trained and following the program and not interfering then there is no reason that I shouldn't go and be welcomed around the campfire. There is no reason that a mom shouldn't be invited to camps simply for the purpose of observing their children. Now if June Cleaver shows up and starts turning down sheets and cooking for the boys then something should be said but just to assume that a mom will do that is wrong. Independance is a great thing and I think all boys should learn it but parental involvement should never be compromised.
            Families are different, unless it is a family camp then participation could be limited to a parent or guardian.


            • #36
              Whats amazing is that they wouldn't welcome the ladies along. I mean really, If you got a couple of moms, the Dads can sit around while the ladies Cook, fetch water, wash dishes, and Cut Firewood for the Adult patrol. Boy, thats great, all us guys wopuld have to do is make coffee(only because men make better trail coffee), tend the fire, and tell tall stories.

              Sitting here with a VBG, while sipping my wifes coffee.


              • #37
                Scoutscooter - well played - good luck. Your son is already an SPL, it'll just take some time for others around him to figure it out!!! The uniform doesn't make the Scout, the Scout makes the uniform!

                Dug - Why do you want to ween parents from Scouts? Children grow their own independance from their parents at their own pace. I don't understand this feeling that Scouting should help serve, or speed up, that goal. Scout's are too cool for their parents???? -- I think we're missing part of the message. We don't want the Scout to tell his Dad to "Go Away", we want him to say, "Stand back, Dad, and watch what I can do!" It's a great message for the Unit to be sending out to parents, as well!

                I like EagleDad Barry's approach, where you welcome and teach the parents about the program. The more complicated issue is always the parents' independance - not the Scout's! Don't chase them away, find them a spot at the Leaders campfire!

                Vicki - Well thought out. I love it when Scouter's show they are thinking more about the boys than themselves! Give yourself an Attaboy!,, ...well..., you know what I mean! (You can take the man (er, person) out of his (er, or her) culture, but you can't take the cultural indoctrination out of the man (er, person)!)

                nldscout, LOL!!! Mostly because your wife is obviously not reading over your shoulder, and I'm imagining the wicked smiles as Kristi and Vicki gleefully stomp all over your wit and whatever else they can reach!!! A Scout is Brave, not Reckless!!!!

                jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)


                • #38
                  I disagree JD. Times are changing and we are seeing the ever increasing trend of infantilization of our boys and girls and unlike even just 10 years ago, Eagledad's method becomes harder and harder to do. At least in our experiences. That said, when i was a scout though the early 90s we had only 3 or four fathers involved outside the scoutmasters, mine being one of them. Now, since ive been an ASM we have 10 that are going out west to Philmont and our Southwest tour and another dozen that are heavily involved in camping and troop comittee. Our policy hasnt cut dads (an moms) from being a part of our program and it really has made more then a few kids become much more independant then they would have even if Dad is in the area. Im sure you have experienced the vast changes in personality in some boys with and away from their mom and dad.


                  • #39
                    "infantilization" Wooo Boy! This from your vast experience of many, many years dealing with children of all sexes, races, & creeds?

                    Hey Scouts out there! - I know we have quite a few youth members in this forum. Do you feel like the world in general, or your family and/or Troop in particular, is growing more & more condescending to you & treats you like you are an infant? Lets hear from you!


                    • #40
                      >>Our policy hasnt cut dads (an moms) from being a part of our program and it really has made more then a few kids become much more independant then they would have even if Dad is in the area.


                      • #41



                        • #42
                          very true Eagledad. I may have led people to misinterpret me, i agree with what you said about the difficulty being the parents. The idea behind this all is MOSTLY for the parents, not the kids. Parents are much more difficult to get to severe the umbilical cord. Parents ARE indeed the first and biggest obstacle when dealing with homesickness.


                          • #43
                            Before I start please I have no intent to convince, only share observations.

                            My two Boy Scout sons are in different troops, so I have the opportunity to serve, compare and contrast two very different programs (in terms of size, camping emphasis, program emphasis, etc.).

                            The smaller troop makes it very clear from the first visit that only males are invited to go camping, with the exception of annual family campout. Moms are involved on the troop committee and with other behind-the-scenes stuff - they just dont go camping. I had reservations, but after pushing my eldest sons troop hard and visiting about four other troops before this one, my 2nd son was adamant this was one he wanted to join.

                            I dont know how the troop policy came to be this way. When we first visited about 3 years ago, we were told point blank about the troop policy and it was noted that this was different from the other dozen troops in the area, so there are choices. The troop has been around for 12 years and seems to be doing fine.

                            Ive heard some suggest the guys-only troops must be participating in some heinous activities theyd be ashamed to have ladies witness. I havent seen any signs of this. Humor, discussion topics, and casual wear around the campfire (no loincloths) are pretty much the same in both. As an insider, I have never seen any overt signs of them being an unenlightened, anti-women He-man Women-Haters Club. Its never discussed and never an issue with the scouts not that its hidden or forbidden just never comes up.

                            The scouts and families in the troop seem to be satisfied with the status quo. The moms (including a couple of single moms) are vocally appreciative of the men who will consistently step up to the plate to help provide the opportunity for their sons and most are relieved at not feeling pressure to come along. Mind you, this applies to the families that have joined the troop. The reaction of visitors is very mixed ranging from Interesting tell me more, through Youre kidding, right? to a string of un-lady-like expletives and My lawyer will call you as they hit the exit door. (I am not making this up.) A few are offended, but at least the troop leaders are up-front from the day you first visit, so there are no shifting requirements and other frustrating games later.

                            The Charter Org is happy and within its rights within BSA policy to set this requirement. My son is happy. The troop delivers a good program. Nobody is stuck there are plenty of local options. I regret this offends some, but it really seems like a non-issue.

                            Now Ill scamper off to hide in my cave and chew on some manly mammoth jerky



                            • #44
                              Two quick thoughts (before leaving for my Cadette daughter's Scout meeting):

                              I would not want to be a part of ANY troop where the SM is pigheaded about anything (except following Youth Protection and safe camping rules). In my BSA and GSUSA troops, I welcome parents of either sex on camping trips.

                              I do ask, though, that they try to put their role as "parent" aside for the weekend, and simply act as one of the adults. Certainly when my son was in Scouts, I tried to discourage him from always coming to me about things, and to simply be "one of the Scouts" for the weekend. I do the same with my daughter now. The reason for this has been addressed previously: I don't want my kids -- or any Scouts -- to miss out on the experiences that they will receive if they are "one of the Scouts". I want them to learn to function without Dad or Mom at their elbow.




                              • #45
                                I have been in scouting many years and women not just a scouts mom have been at every non troop event. How is this SM get around all of these women? Our council has a family day during summer camp so the scouts (not just boys, also the coed Venturing crews) can show the parents what they have learned. If I did not have a strong woman behind me I would not be as good as I am.