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Catholics Pivoting from GSUSA To American Heritage Girls?

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  • Catholics Pivoting from GSUSA To American Heritage Girls?

    http://seattleoyyam.org/programs/catholic-scouting/catholic-committee-on-scouting

    The Archdiocesan Catholic Committee on Scouting for Seattle had a coordinator for Girl Scouts listed on their website a couple of months ago when last I checked.

    Now it's gone, but there is a coordinator for American Heritage Girls listed.

    I wonder if the Catholic Church is pivoting away from GSUSA and towards AHG?

  • #2
    No, it is not.

    First of all, the Catholic Committee on Scouting is a group of VOLUNTEERS. The views of the individual volunteers are their views ALONE, not those of the Catholic Church, or the Archdiocese of Seattle.

    Second, the CCS is about the youth ministry, and the Religious Emblem programs for the BOY SCOUT programs. It has NEVER been about, or for, the Religious Emblem programs for Girl Scouts.




    Comment


    • #3
      How can "the Catholic Church is pivoting away from GSUSA" be possible when GSUSA was never "involved" with the Catholic Church, in the same way as BSA?

      GSUSA does not have charter organizations.

      The Catholic Church (or any other church or organization for that matter) does NOT own any GSUSA Troops/Groups.

      Comment


      • #4
        How can "the Catholic Church is pivoting away from GSUSA" be possible when GSUSA was never "involved" with the Catholic Church, in the same way as BSA?

        Because SeattlePioneer (a) really desperately wants this to be true for some reason, (b) has not done a whit of research into how GSUSA works and (c) has not even done a cursory search of the website he cites.

        That site clearly indicates that the committee he discusses does support the Girl Scout program:

        - It lists religious medals for girls that specifically include Girl Scouts: http://seattleoyyam.org/programs/catholic-scouting/emblem-books-and-medals

        - The Catholic Scout Retreat at Camp Don Bosco in October includes Girl Scouts among its themes: http://seattleoyyam.org/programs/catholic-scouting

        But by all means, let's fall over ourselves asking breathlessly whether a volunteer's name no longer being listed on a website means a sea change in a program.

        [Edited: Sorry about the link - it won't copy right for some reason](This message has been edited by shortridge)

        Comment


        • #5
          Ahhhh what a colorful canvas we paint......

          seattle go do your AHG thing.....Just stop posting about it here. Your ugly desperate to justify what you want to do.





          Catholic committee on scout.....Laughing here......Three old guys and 6 nerdy boys at a catholic camporee......Lots of fun....NOT....Shook hands spent 2 minutes and ran....

          I am catholic, took my son as a cub to see what it was about......

          Comment


          • #6
            Yah, well...

            Catholic churches don't charter GSUSA units in da same way that they charter BSA units, but they do "host" Girl Scout units in their facilities, provide access and encouragement to Girl Scout units in their schools, and staff GSUSA units with Catholic parent volunteers.

            It also seems clear that at least some elements of da U.S. Catholic hierarchy are concerned about that "relationship" and willin' to consider backing away from it.

            'Round these parts, I have noticed an increasin' skepticism of GSUSA among da Catholic institutional leaders that charter BSA units. AHG has come up occasionally as an alternative. A bit seems to depend on whether da local parish or pastor fits da ideologically conservative mold. I reckon it's enough of a concern to have national GSUSA leadership goin' out of their way to engage in "dialog" with da Catholic bishop's conference.

            I don't think it's anywhere near a tippin' point yet, though. Many of da Catholic folks I know are just as turned off by what they perceive as the overt Protestantism of da American Heritage Girls. Plus da fee structure of AHG makes entrance more of a hurdle.

            Beavah

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            • #7
              Lordy, lordy. I was just up in Savannah and visited the Julia Low house. Must have seen a thousand Girl Scouts and leaders and talked to dozens. They all seemed just swell--not the little green shirted demons at all...

              When I see these topics I think "you know, Boy Scouts is enough". But I do not have a dog in that hunt.

              Comment


              • #8
                >>"Catholic churches don't charter GSUSA units in da same way that they charter BSA units, but they do "host" Girl Scout units in their facilities, provide access and encouragement to Girl Scout units in their schools, and staff GSUSA units with Catholic parent volunteers."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yah, ScoutNut, as with most things, I reckon da reality is more varied and subtle than that, eh?

                  I don't know any Catholic parishes or schools that simply allow access to any organization that parish youth participate in. They all approve organizations that they feel are a good match for their mission (although a few do rent their facilities for a fee, even then they seem to be selective).

                  Da parishes that run schools tend to have Cub Scout packs and GSUSA units that are pretty tightly tied to their school, eh? Da parent volunteers for each tend to be traditional Catholic parents. They're not goin' to have a problem makin' a switch from GSUSA to AHG (or CYO if da Catholics just want to do their own thing).

                  Da real reason there's no push for a switch is that by and large GSUSA allows 'em effective local option. Da leadership is from the parish or the school, and reflects the Catholic perspective, and da membership is from the school and also reflects da membership norms/expectations for practicing Catholics (or those who are willin' to put up with practicing Catholics in exchange for a better education ). Right now anyways as close as I can tell this is an institutional issue at da level of da bishops, which is percolatin' down to some of the more conservative pastors and congregations. It isn't (yet) an issue for the average parent or congregant.

                  OGE or that fellow with da funny P-name who are Catholics can probably say more. I'm just a furry outsider listenin' at da edge of da grapevine while supportin' some Catholic COs.

                  Beavah

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    >>"Da parishes that run schools tend to have Cub Scout packs and GSUSA units that are pretty tightly tied to their school, eh?">"Da parent volunteers for each tend to be traditional Catholic parents. They're not goin' to have a problem makin' a switch from GSUSA to AHG (or CYO if da Catholics just want to do their own thing)."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Normally, I might suggest that the committee member representing the Girl Scouts had left the committee and a replacement hasn't yet been found and that SP is reading more into it than it deserves - but, I've cruised the Archdiocese of Seattle's Office for Youth and Young Adult Ministry website and found some interesting little things that should make one step back and ponder for a bit.

                      For instance, under Catholic Scouting: Emblem Books and Medals, it tells how one can order the Boy and Girl Scout Emblem Books and Medals then lists the different medal programs - one set for Boy Scouts and one set for American Heritage Girls, Campfire Girls, Etc. Apparently, in the heading, the Girl Scouts, the largest youth organization for girls, is now an "Etc.". The descriptions talk about Girl Scouts and Campfire but the section heading doesn't mention the Girl Scouts.

                      Looking at the committee list, one finds specific members representing AHG and the Boy Scouts, but no specific member representing the Girl Scouts. There is a vacant position listed - Membership: Scout/Venture but no vacant position listed for Girl Scouts (of course, that could mean that the Girl Scouts have decided to no longer ask someone to serve on this committee). The two members that specifically are listed as Boy Scout liasons each represent a different council. What's interesting is that both of these folks are also troop coordinators for a local AHG troop. The person listed under training is also involved as an assistant troop leader in the AHG. The BSA is well represented - of the 12 members listed, only one hasn't been involved in Boy Scouting in some way, either as a Scout, a leader, or a parent, outside the Catholic Committee on Scouting and that person is a Priest. One of the BSA council liasons did earn the Girl Scout Gold award but only one person, a member at large, is a Girl Scout Leader.

                      Now if one were a conspiracy theorist, one might come to the conclusion that the AHG folks are marginalizing the girls scouts through their influence on the board, but can't completely do away with supporting them because of the religious award medals. That is, if one were a conspiracy theorist.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It would not surprise me to learn that GSUSA programs are embedded in a lot of Catholic parishes and that there may be little interest in changing to another program.

                        However, I'm expecting to research the issue of whether GSUSA, AHG or some other group is the preferred or recommended choice for a new program for girls in a parish.

                        I would suppose the Catholic Committee on Scouting might have recommendations on that, and the parish leadership might as well.

                        I'll be interested to find out what that might be.

                        As I noted, I do find it interesting that a CCS volunteer represents the AHG program while the much larger (as noted in this thread) Girl Scout Council has no one. Could be just a coincidence of course.

                        Newspaper articles suggest GSUSA is at least somewhat out of favor with the Catholic leadership around here, and apparently nationally as well.

                        I suppose I ought to contact that CCS leader who is representing AHG and see what they might have to say about these issues.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As I mentioned earlier - the Catholic Committee on Scouting is DIRECTLY tied to the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA. BSA is even a part of it's symbol.

                          It is NOT a Girl Scout ministry - at all.

                          AHG is run as a RELIGIOUS MINISTRY, and utilizes CHARTER ORGS, as does BSA.

                          GSUSA does not utilize Charter Organizations.

                          There is ONE AHG Troop (maybe 20 girls at best?) in the entire city of Seattle, as opposed to thousands of Girls Scouts.

                          If the Archdiocese of Seattle feels that that one Troop is the wave of the future, and refuses to allow the hundreds of Catholic Girl Scouts in Seattle to use it's facilities, or earn it's Religious Emblems, then I guess that is their call.

                          Youth are leaving the Catholic Church as it is, perhaps the Archdiocese of Seattle feels compelled to hurry the process along.

                          Seattle, if you want to form your own AHG group that is tied to your Cub Scout group, more power to you.

                          However, you have no control over what group the girls in your local church decide to join. Girls, and their families, do NOT need your permission, the permission of the local CCS, or the permission of your local church, to form Girl Scout Troops.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ScoutNut

                            You have hit the nail on the head, this so called Catholic-AHG Alliance is strictly in the mind of Seattle Pioneer and simply is not true. The truth of the matter is, according to my priest contacts is that there is no dissatisfaction between the Catholic Church and GSA troops who meet at Catholic Churches. SP for some personal reason is on his one man crusade to dennounce and purge the GSUSA from all Catholic churches. However just like Don Quixote he is tilting at windmills.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It would be more likely for a Catholic Church to turn to Little Flowers as an alternative to Girl Scouting. The program is based on Catholic doctrine, and would be a better fit that AHG.

                              http://0307843.netsolhost.com/beholdmain/LFGC_home.htm

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