Where/how has the Troop been getting his past rank patches?
Is this one of those councils that allow anyone to simply stroll into a Scout Shop and purchase rank awards with no paperwork? If so, this should cause the council to re-think that policy. Personally, I would contact the SE and push for that change as soon as possible.
Depending on your position with this unit, I would also contact your CO to give them a heads up on what kind of a mess they have on their hands.
This CO/unit was extremely lucky that this boy was never injured on a Scouting activity as he would not have been covered by insurance.
I completely agree with the others - toss the ball back to the SM. This mother needs to be informed of the reality of the situation. Only REGISTERED members of BSA can earn BSA awards.
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- May 2002
- May 2012
NONREGISTERED SCOUT EARNS EAGLE ! ! !
Wow is all I can Say..
Someone has be putting themselves into a "Legal Mess for Sure"
What would have happened if he had been injured?
Does this mean we can have unregistered leaders also?
Can we have Nonregistered Volunteers?
Does YP apply to them?
Very Simple No PAID Registration : NO NOTHING..and I mean Paid for every year he has been involved...SCREW BEING GENTLE..... TELL MOM NO...SHE MADE THE CHOICE Now LIVE WITH IT. If You Do Award it you Dishonor everyone who has followed the rules.
- Jan 2012
Contrary to what the council is telling you, they council won't be able to verify and enter the rank, and if they try to send it to National for manual posting, they won't be able to process it. And they will not issue credentials for a Scout who wasn't registered.
Concur with the others. Mom is an idiot and so are those in the unit who allowed him to participate without registering. No Eagle. Sorry. We're done.
- 1 Like
- Jul 2012
No paper trail: No Eagle. Pretty simple in my mind. This boy is not an Eagle Scout, and his mother is an idiot. Sad that a young man put in the work and won't earn the recognition, but that's his mommas fault.
Yours In Scouting,
- Feb 2002
I would tell Mom what the "Eagle secretary" told you, and if she doesn't like it, give her the guy's contact information and tell her the troop has nothing more to do with it.
As for whether the council can really backdate years worth of registrations and seven ranks (including Scout and Eagle), or whether National will kick it back, that is council's issue, not yours. But I would thank the council guy for his willingness to go beyond the call of duty to help this young man, whose situation seems to be the fault of his mother and not his own. It's unfortunate that Mom will not do her part for her own son.
Don't know about now, but i do know council will back date records of REGISTERED (emphsasis, not shouting) prior to SCOUTNET. One of my Eagles was some how listed as a First Class Scout when his paperwork for eagle was submitted. between copies of his BSHB and troop copies of the advancement reports, council corrected the records,
Also pre1989 and the removal of time requirements for T-2-1, I had "challenges" with my Eagle as the dates council had contradicted what was in my BSHB. Come to find out the registrar at teh time was putting in the dates she entered the info, not the dates on the reports.
Now as to backdating an unregistered Scout, I do not think it's possible. Although I did hear something about a trial program to "invite a freind to scout camp" a council was doing. Basically the scout would go to camp and do the first year camper program. If he joined after camp, the memerbship would be backdated to when he went to camp, and he would get credit for the stuff done at camp. But that was a week or two backdating, not years.
And I agree very lucky no accident occured.
Now my question: how did he get through the program? Most camps will verify a scout is registered, and if not he would be come registered or sent home.
Question I have is this: how could he slip
- Apr 2011
I can have sympathy for the leaders with this one. The family wanted their son involved in scouting but did want to be registered. They tried to be flexible to help the scout. Now though, their supportive attitude is coming back to haunt everyone. I could easily see this happen ... depending on how helpful the leaders want to be.
BUT ... every step in advancement require being registered in the troop. Heck, this case-in-point is the very reason that the "active" definition starts with "registered in his unit". Heck, I know several home schooling groups that use some of the BSA merit badge books. But the home schoolers don't earn the merit badge because they are not registered scouters.
I'd recommend finishing the path that his mother started him on and finding an eagle patch to purchase thru ebay and then awarding him that. Just remind him and his mother that since they did not want to be officially registered in BSA and as such BSA has no record of him earning Eagle. He can consider it a personal achievement, but not something people can later verify as he earned Eagle.
Sometimes when we try to help the most, that's when it comes back to bite us. Sad to say it.
- Sep 2006
I woul dbe prepared to pull every advancement report, all the registrations, and the charters for the past four or five years and verify that this is the only unregistered Scout in the troop otherwise you will run into this problem again. And, are the adult leaders trained?
I thought I had replied to this, but it's not showing up. I agree with the "no Eagle" crowd. If you are not registered, you cannot be awarded ranks, whether you did the work or not. I don't even agree with allowing the parent to register "retroactively", but whatever. The mom insisted on having her way and it is costing her son the Eagle Scout award. The only thing the unit did wrong was to allow the boy to continue to participate without being officially registered. A huge liability for the CO and the BSA. Sorry, but the program has rules, and the parents don't get to do it "their way"...
Agree with you 110%, pull records NOW to prevent this from happening again.
Must respectfully disagree. I can understand how hard it would be to say no, but the boy was not registered, and did not meet requirements.
He did not meet requirement 2 for Scout rank which is Complete a Boy Scout application and health history signed by your parent or guardian.
Since he never completed Scout which is the Joing Requirements, he could not earn any of the other ranks.
Further the boy does not meet the ACTIVE ( emphasis not shouting) requirement fro S-L-E whis is defined as the following according to the GTA
126.96.36.199 Active Participation
The purpose of Star, Life, and Eagle Scout requirements calling for Scouts to be active for a period of months involves impact. Since we prepare young people to go forth, and essentially, make a positive difference in our American society, we judge that a member is "active" when his level of activity in Scouting, whether high or minimal, has had a sufficiently positive influence toward this end.
Use the following three sequential tests to determine whether the requirement has been met. The first and second are required, along with either the third or its alternative.
- The Scout is registered. The youth is registered in his unit for at least the time period indicated in the requirement, and he has indicated in some way, through word or action, that he considers himself a member. If a boy was supposed to have been registered, but for whatever reason was not, discuss with the local council registrar the possibility of back-registering him.
So I would not give him an Eagle. I would look into the possibility of back-registering him as that does seem a possibility. Do not know how that works, but he may be able to get as far as First Class under this possibility. May need to redo some S-L-E requirements: PORs, ACTIVE requirement, and service projects, including an Eage one.
Question: How did the district advancement committee approve the Eagle project? Something doesn't seem right in this situation.
Wow, this is a very interesting situation. I agree that the best situation is tell Mom that he has to register if he wants his Eagle, and let her work it out the council executive.
- Nov 2000
This one somewhat blows my mind. If all the facts are as presented, the prior troop adult leadership needs serious re training. I cannot understand how a boy could even hang around so long without being required to formally join. If the mom is as described, she needs some serious re orientation as well. One cannot expect to reap all the benefits accruing to one's progeny from participating in any youth organization without following the rules. She has set a horrible example for her son and he may pay a serious price in being denied the eagle that he thinks he has earned. BSA needs someone like Judge Judy to deal with these types of people.
- May 2005