SM Slowing Advancement

[SR540Beaver]

I'm not a very direct person and I don't like confrontation. The SM and I get along fine and I don't really think there would be a conflict, but I am having a problem with his approach on advancement. Let me throw in that he is wanting me to take over as SM this summer, so this may be a moot point. We are a new troop that started up a year ago with all Webelos. For the most part, these boys have attained 1st class in the first year. Some or most are working on Star. As long as the boys fulfill their POR's and get a good number of their MB's at fairs and summer camp, the only other thing they need is service hours. Unfortunately, we have been a little weak on service projects. He told me and the other ASM in an e-mail last week that he has no intentions of anyone making Star before the end of this year as he wants them to mature and not advance too quickly. He doesn't want 13 or 14 year old Eagle scouts. In fact, he told the boys that they would be 16 at the youngest before making Eagle becasue the council wouldn't approve a boy before then. This guy is an Eagle and district trainer. I was kind of floored. Boys should advance at their own pace and if they do the work, they should attain their rank. I'm in no hurry for my son to shoot up the ladder, but he is SPL and he will easily accomplish his POR and MB's by mid-summer. The only think he doesn't have is service hours. We could easily (and should) be doing at least an hour of service per month. Our charter is a church and they have weedy flowerbeds. They asked us during the winter if we could weed their beds this spring. I figured we could get the boys there on a Saturday and spend a couple of hours and clean them out. Our SM announced that we will work on the beds for 15 minutes at our next meeting. 15 minutes?! I finally figured out how he is going to slow the advancement to his liking. He'll dole out service hours in 15 minute increments and make it last until the end of the year. Again, I'm just floored. He'll allow the lower ranks to pick up trash around their neighborhoods and let the parents verify that they did it in order to sign off on those ranks service requirements, but he wants the upper ranks to be a group project he can verify. How do I tell him he is off base and that while we are not adding or deleting from the requirements, we are controlling the speed and it is wrong.

[FScouter]

Tell him your interested in the advancement part of Scouting and could he please direct you to some BSA publications that talk about how fast a boy should advance, and at what age and maturity level the Eagle rank is appropriate. Of course there is nothing that supports his idea, and everything to support the at-your-own-pace plan. Then you can point out what you learned. What can he say?

[Eamonn]

Hi Beav,

You know any wise words that I might post.

You know how this game ought to be played.

You know what needs to be done.

OJ, is a good Lad. I was unhappy with his reading skills so we (Her That Must Be Obeyed and I) made him redo second grade. Which is a decision that I think really was for the best.

He is going to be 17 in July and will finish 10th Grade. He always has been an active Scout, rarely if ever missing a troop meeting or camp-out.

He was already in a Den and active in Cub Scouts, when we made him redo the second grade. He earned his AOL and joined the Boy Scouts at ten and a half. Things were great in the Advancement department while he was at the elementary and in the first year of junior high. Then he started to find new things that he wanted to do. Up until then he was doing stuff that we wanted him to do. Soon he was playing soccer, in the choir, doing track and active in the OA.

I have lost track of how long he has been a Life Scout. All he needs is to complete his project and BOR and he could be an Eagle Scout.

I think we are lucky that he is a grade behind, I think if he was where he should/could be he just wouldn't have the time.

A lot of Lad zoom through the first few ranks and then find other activities that they want to follow, slowing them down is doing them a great disservice.

Eamonn.

[DugNevius]

Is a 13 year old an eaglescout? technicly he can be. Should he be? Well, thats up for debate.

[SemperParatus]

Gee Beav, sounds like you need to take him up on his offer to be the Scoutmaster.

 

Using service projects as a negative motivator is silly. Community service should be ingrained into the troop as part of its being, not just counted in minute increments for rank advancement.

[John-in-KC]

Have to agree with Semper on ingraining service as a positive.

 

At the same time, each young man is different. As they approach 12-13, there are paths to explore ... time with youth Den Chiefing, entering OA and accepting leadership and responsibility there ... God and Country program ... exploration of career paths through the merit badge program (have someone interested in a career in the building trades take carpentry, painting, home repairs, metalwork ...)

 

The ADVANCEMENT method doesn't have to strictly mean TF-Eagle. It means helping a young man structure his growth and development.

 

Look at each Scout individually. Give them lots of mentorship. The rest will follow.

[packsaddle]

I continue to face this with our SM. I respond to his thoughts on controlling the rate of advancement by asking him questions.

If the boy has completed advancement requirements, how does it benefit the boy not to allow advancement?

Where does BSA tell the SM that it is his duty to make additional requirements?

So far, he hasn't been able to answer to his own satisfaction.

If a counselor or someone involved with advancement signs off a requirement when the boy hasn't actually completed it, then the boy and the program suffer. But the fault is with the adult(s), not the boy. And the boy should not bear the burden of a remedy. Therefore, if a boy successfully completes the requirements, he SHOULD advance without regard to age or maturity. The burden should be on US to make sure the program proceeds fairly and accurately.

[Eagledad]

>>The ADVANCEMENT method doesn't have to strictly mean TF-Eagle. It means helping a young man structure his growth and development.

[LPC_Thumper]

In other posts I've stated that I conduct Eagle Boards of Review. As someone that my council turns to when it comes to answering the question "Is this scout an Eagle?" let me shed some light on what we look at...

 

We don't really look at age. I've seen 18 year olds that are clueless, I've had sharp 14 year old sit across our table, age has NOTHING to do with maturity. We talk up the idea that one of the main purposes of the Eagle LEADERSHIP Service Project is where I placed the emphasis (did you notice all the capital letters?). Now with scouts that are younger it can be harder for them to demonstrate leadership. Not impossible, just harder. We talk with their leaders and help them learn that this is what we are looking for.

 

It is a real mistake to slow a scout down. My son was Star for 2 days longer than the minimum amount of time before he made Life. He was Life for nearly 4 years... He explored all sorts of things, he and I are both glad he did. His delay cost him this one detail. He only got one palm (the old man didn't get any). On the other hand, he discovered he enjoys guitar, can play soccer, has fun memories of dating, and actually enjoys working on cars. He turned out fine, oh and by the way, he now sits on boards with the old man.

[EagleInKY]

Let me tell you a quick story about a fast advancing young lad. He made Tenderfoot in about 2 months, Second Class probably 4 months later, another 6 months and he was First Class (can you say FC/FY?). About six months later, he makes Star. Boy, is this kid on the move. He slows down a bit, and makes Life about 18 months later. But Eagle is just around the corner.... 2+ years later. Did this boy disappear for a while? No. Was he inactive? No. Did anyone artificially hold him back? I don't think so. Why did it take him so long? Other interests, he wanted to work at his own pace, lots of things. How do I know? It was me, about 25 years ago!

 

The point is, don't worry about the speed of early advancement. I don't think it is a predictor of the speed of the Star-Life-Eagle advancement. Help them set their goals and give them the opportunity to learn, explore and make their own way. It will mean much more to them.

[DugNevius]

Should adults push their sons to reach eagle at 14 because thats about the time most boys begin to drift from scouting? Should we adults make it as easy as possible for boys to make eagle? Does a scout who is 14 and has been in scouting for four years have the same amount of experience as a scout that is 16 and has been in scouting for 6 years?

 

Or shpuld the bar be raised so that while every scout has the chance to clear it those that do are of a higher caliber of scouts?

[Hunt]

I think there are a couple of approaches to this problem. The direct approach would be to tell the SM to relax, and that most of the boys will probably slow down anyway as they hit some of the more time-consuming merit badges.

On the other hand, the requirement for Star says the service project must be approved by the Scoutmaster, not provided by him. If a Scout wants to do a service project for advancement, he should approach the SM and ask for approval--and ask him why if he doesn't approve it. I should note that I am not aware of anything that says the service project has to be done as a troop or patrol--it can be service done outside of Scouting entirely, as long as the SM approves it.

[FScouter]

"Or shpuld the bar be raised so that while every scout has the chance to clear it those that do are of a higher caliber of scouts?"

 

I don't believe any adult should be moving the bar, either up or down. The bar has been set and its position is defined in the Scout Handbook and other publications.

 

There are lots of ways adult leaders can help boys be of a high caliber that don't involve adding additional requirements. Restricting advancement does not create high caliber.

[mdutch]

Talk to the SPL. Him, along with the PLC, should be setting the calendar, and can schedule in service projects as often as they would like.

[Prairie_Scouter]

As a SM, I really just try to emphasize to the Scouts that the journey is every bit as important as the destination. It shouldn't be a race, and every Scout should know that they can advance as far, or as little, as they want and still enjoy Scouting. I'd like them all to get 1st Class, since that involves learning the basic outdoor and leadership skills, and that to me is a safety issue for our outings, but beyond that, it's really up to them.