Webelos-to-Scout Transition - BORs

[EagleInKY]

One of the challenges we had this year with starting a new troop was coaching the boys through what a Board of Review would be like. I tried to prepare them for it, but they still were all pretty intimidated. We had one scout vaper lock in the BOR, so it had to be postponed. But that was only 1 out of 9 Scouts that had problems, and he did fine on his second attempt. So, in my opinion, they generally went well.

 

Now I have the Cubmaster of our "feeder Pack" who is concerned and wants to make the process better. (He has a FY Scout in the Troop). He wants to introduce BORs in Webelos. He sees this as a way of getting them exposure to the process in a less threatening way.

 

The Pack Committee (which I still participate in) tried to squelch the idea, but he is still encouraging it. I've tried to stay out of it and let the Pack take care of it, but I feel I may need to step in. I have pushed the "you can't introduce additional requirements", and he backed down to calling them "mock" BORs.

 

Bottom line - I don't think they'll do it. The Den Leaders and Pack Committee don't support it. However, I'm interested in finding out how you've introduced BORs to your new Scouts. Are there some good methods of making them feel a little more at ease? Is this a good thing for the Den Chief to work with them on in Webelos?

[FScouter]

Ask yourself why the boys seem to be intimidated by the BOR process. What fears have been fed to a boy such that he would "vapor lock"? The Board of Review not an inquisition with hot lights and a rubber hose.

 

A better solution might be to squelch the negative rumors about the BOR process, rather than have the Cub Scout pack brace the boys for a bad experience that isn't going to happen.

[Laurie]

I would not be in favor of that. The boys get nervous when they know they have a SM conference in order to earn Arrow of Light. If anything, I personally would meet with each boy to review his AoL scoreboard--or if he isn't going for AoL, then his other advancements--and that would be similar to a SM. I do meet with individual boys in our Webelos II den, and they are usually nervous with one-on-one meetings (in site of the other leaders and parents), but by a second or third meeting, they actually enjoy it, and we get to know one another better. Since Board of Review is for a troop and not a pack, since it does not meet a requirement, and since each troop personality may be a little different, I see no reason why the boys can't begin these at the troop level. My son is a first-year Scout, and 6 boys bridged. Two aren't very active at all, but the other four have all had SM conferences and BORs, and they've done just fine. But this is just my take on this, not BSA policy or BSA-dictated

[EagleInKY]

FS - You make a good point. Trying to squelch negative rumors is important. That's one of my concerns about talking about it to the Webelos, that may just fan the flame of their concerns.

 

In our case, there shouldn't have been any bad rumors, since we were a new troop. However, I'm sure the boys could have heard something from friends who are in other troops.

 

As for the boy who froze, he gets very nervous whenever he has to speak to anyone - especially adults. He's slowly getting more comfortable in our SM conferences, but he's got a ways to go. He called me the other day to ask something, and it took him forever to get his question out. He was stuttering so bad I could feel his persperation through the phone! So, I think he could have frozen up no matter how much he was prepared. I was relieved when he made it through his 2nd Class BOR a few weeks ago.

[acco40]

Let me see, how's school? What did you enjoy the most on your last outing? What are 3 best things you enjoy about Boy Scouting? What are your short term and long term goals in Scouting? What don't you like?

 

Yes, these questions could terrify a young boy!

[NJCubScouter]

FScouter, I agree.

 

Acco, in theory you are correct, but it sounds like that is NOT the way BOR's are in the troop in question. It sounds like it may be more like the "Where were you on the night of the 23rd" variety... "if you don't answer my question, you'z'll hafta deal wit my partna here, and he ain't in so good a mood." Or in other words, here's a rope kid, tie a square knot, but wait, let us blindfold you first.

 

Or something like that. In other words the BORs may be intimidating because they are made to be intimidating, and they are not supposed to be.

[Eagledad]

>>Yes, these questions could terrify a young boy!

[molscouter]

What does he have to be terrified about? For starters, has he ever been alone in a room, outnumbered by adults, where he actually is expected to contribute something? I submit that for most kids, the Tenderfoot BOR is the first time.

 

Think about it. At school, kids outnumber the adults, not so threatening. If he's been at a family gathering, either 1) the conversation towards him is one on one or 2) the adults are talking among themselves and he isn't really a part of those conversations. Not to mention there's always one or two older Scouts who make it sound as if it's the inquisition, even if it's not.

 

Yes the icebreaker questions should help. But if he's petrified going in, they may not ease the anxiety quickly enough, especially for a shy boy.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

[acco40]

One of the methods of Scouting is "association with adults." No Scout should have a BOR before he has had a SM conference. One to the topics I discuss with boys seeking Tenderfoot is what to expect at a BOR. The fear of the unknown is then slayed. MY TASK, not the boys, it to make sure he is at ease with me (the SM) and with the BOR.

 

Well before the BOR the boy should have had contact with the SA assigned to his NSP. If he was a Cub Scout, interaction with his den leader and cubmaster should have calmed his nerves.

 

By the way, I always have an SA give my son(s) ther SM conference for the ranks up to Star so they learn from the association with adults who are not mom and dad. I don't think the kids are spooked about talking to "strange" adults (they shouldn't be) but just by the fact that they don't know what a BOR is all about. Heck, the kids I've encountered in my travails rarely show any respect to adults much less fear! (typed only half in jest).

[dsteele]

If you happen to have forgotten what it's like to be a young Scout going for a rank (pick a rank, it really doesn't matter) just remember how you felt the last time you had to prepare for a performance review on your job.

 

DS

[EagleInKY]

Sorry NJS & Acco, You're off the mark on this one. The BORs are not the inquisition that you accused us of. While I'm not present for them, I know that they follow some of the standard scripts that are available on the net. They follow the typical format, a few icebreakers, followed by some talk about what they've been doing, what could we do better, etc. They are not re-tests. So, get your facts straight before you make accusations.

 

Second, I've had a long relationship with the guys. We've been togetether since Tigers or Wolves (4-5+ years). So, they're pretty comfortable with me. But, when they go in to the BOR, they're in front of Johnny's dad and Billy's mom. It's a little different. Plus, as molscouter pointed out, they're outnumbered.

 

Eagledad, molscouter, ds - You got at the heart of the question. Even as adults, we get nervous when put in new situations, or situations where we feel like we're being judged. It's a lot to put on a 10-11 year old. I'm of the opinion that the first one is going to be hard, no matter what, so let's try to make the best of it. Having them do it as Webelos just moves it up sooner, and maybe scares them more. I like the idea of having some of the older Scouts talk to them before hand, and assure them that it's not an inquisition. Then, try to keep other Scouts from intimidating them as well.

[Twocubdad]

Seems like there are always someone who thinks the boys need to "jump ahead" so when they get where they're going, they've already done what they're going there to do.

 

I had a running conversation with a Webelos leader over introducing more camping skills to the Webelos. This guy had an older son in the troop and was "shocked at the new Scouts poor camping skills." He insisted that the Webelos be able to run with the big dogs as soon as they crossed over. To which I replied, isn't that what Tenderfoot, Second and First Class ranks are for?

 

Let's assume there is a huge intimidation factor in a BOR. Isn't that part of what the boys are learning to deal with? I'm assuming the boy who vapor locked has recovered and is once again a functioning member of society with no obvious scars or marks, right? Didn't he learn something or maybe gain some self confidence in the process?

 

These guys think they're doing the boys a favor. They either think they can remove all the rocks and twigs from the trail and make it easier for the boys, or are the same guys screaming at the T-ballers becaused they missed the turn on the double play. Niether is doing the boys any favors.

 

 

[dsteele]

Twocudad:

 

I couldn't have said it better myself, although I was trying to.

 

A little inherent intimidation on the part of new scouts is not a bad thing. We need to teach them how to overcome it. That's all on that front.

 

We don't need to intentionally try to eliminate it or to train the boys in how to avoid it.

 

The reason adults cringe a bit when thinking about performance reviews is that we all know in our hearts that, no matter how well we have done, we could have done better.

 

The answer, therefore is to strive to do better.

 

I disagree with giving even "mock" boards of review to Webelos. Let them go forward when they are ready --- as Tenderfeet.

 

DS

[sst3rd]

I'm against any type of BOR or mock BOR for Webolos II. At the Scoutmaster Conference when a boy joins, I let him know that as he starts his trail to Eagle, when he is ready for his first rank, he will always have a chat with the SM. This Scoutmaster's Conference will then be followed by a Board of Review. It is clearly explained that the BOR's are not walls to stop his advancement, but a group of supportive adult leaders to review and encourage a Scout to move forward in his Scouting future. Our BOR's also ask the Scout if he has any questions of the BOR.

 

sst3rd

[LauraT7]

I'm also against 'mock BORs'

 

BUT - I can and have seen some boys panic when they have to talk to a parent/ adult they don't know personally. Some take all 3 BOR's to FC before they can loose the sweaty palms and answer in more than 1 syllable words!!

 

I have especially noticed it in some boys when they have to 'contact' me for badge counseling. many kids in our society are discouraged from talking to strangers on the phone, or in person. We have answering machines and e-mail, and other than teachers, (who are a different thing entirely) many kids have no real experience talking to adults who are not relatives or well-known family friends. REAlly!

 

Actually, when I was on the committee and a badge counseler, the Badge counseling made my BOR job less frightening to the boys - because many got a chance to know me before their BOR - when they got there, I was already a somewhat familiar face. It helps to be a counselor for some common badges.

 

(And recruiting committee members for badge counseling is a great way to get some help in those areas, anyway!)

 

Maybe that is the key - perhaps with that first group of new BOY SCOUTS (not webelos) - you could have some kind of ice breaker with the committe members who sit boards? or you could make sure that at least one parent of a boys closest buddy sits on his first few boards? (a parent he already knows). You might even do a 'mock' BOR for the SCOUTS, AFTER they have crossed over, before they get their tenderfoot. ( a BOR is NOT required for Scout rank) Do one with a few Committee members and ALL the 'scouts' together. There is safety in numbers!

 

It really, REALLY helps if your committee KNOWS that they are NOT there to re-test the boy or grill him. Sit in a 'round table' setting or a casual group - NOT in a line behind a table like a group of judges! Stand up and greet him by name, introduce him to the BOR members and SHAKE HIS HAND (scout handshake). In body language, these things put him on a more equal footing with with the adults and will make him more comfortable. Make sure the BOR staff is TRAINED and prepared - perhaps with a sample list of questions and the boys advancement record before the boy walks in. Ask him SPECIFIC, open ended questions, and not questions he can answer with "yes" or "no". Things like "I heard you went on the Winter campout and it snowed - how did you manage to keep warm?" or "I see you took Canoeing this summer at camp - tell me about your tip test? Was it fun? or did you eat seaweed?" LAUGH WITH HIM!