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If EDGE is bad/wrong/poor, How do you Teach Youth to Teac

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What I like to do is to use manager of learning, which it is possible to integrate EDGE into since it is a way of thinking that the teacher isn't teaching, but managing what they learn. For example if there is a scout that may know how to do it already i would try to use them to help explain and teach it, that way all of the scouts learn the skill, those that already know it won't get bored since they are helping to teach the rest of the group, and those that do help teach also have the opportunity to develop their leadership skills at the same time. And if none of them know it I can use EDGE to teach it, but still allow them to do as much of the teaching on their own.

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You are dead on right.  An 11 year old is not the audience for the theory of learning.  Rank and MB requirements should not say EDGE.  Instead, say "Teach a scout" or "Show a new scout".  As scouts ma

The problem with EDGE is that adults are taking their young scouts' time to discuss teaching. A recent study showed that more 11 year old scouts were hurt falling out of their chair asleep while liste

Holy Zombie Thread, Batman! I love having a full size (square) necker.   Anything else and I would rather go without.   I cant find the original parent thread, anyone want to summarize why E

Camping 300 feet away from other Patrols is the monthly ADVENTURE that creates the demand for the practical skills (how to orient a map and use a compass) necessary to make the Patrol journeys taught in Hillcourt's six month Patrol Leader course cited above.


( http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm )


Hillcourt's Patrol Leader adventure formula was


1. Be a Leader [physically in the lead]

2. Be a Friend

3. Be Ahead [in Scoutcraft knowledge].


Yours at 300 feet,




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Nice use of reference there. I do it with the boys all the time.


Fact is, when the patrol loses the knot relay because one boy drew the one knot he didn't know/remember, the skill will be imparted before the next race. The boy who costed his patrol that heat will demand the application of an effective teaching method, and if EDGE is not it, he will let the PL know. "But, I still don't get it!!!"


I guess that is the most important step in teaching: "Inspire willingness to learn."



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Yes Kudu, I have read the material, and I guess that is what perplexes me the most, the whole program is based on Explaning, Demonstrating Guiding and Enabling the Patrol Leaders to lead their patrol.


This is my take on it, look at my comments as Obi-Wan-Kenobee's different point of view:


First Training Meeting

THEME: Patrol Spirit and Patrol Organization


(a) Simple Opening Ceremony: Recitation of the Second Point of the Scout Law in full. Reading by Senior Patrol Leader of "A Patrol Leader's Creed"


(Since this is the first meeting, there are some that may say that this is a DEMONSTRATION of the elements of Opening Ceremony)


(b) Purpose of Training and Establishing Patrol: Tell briefly what you expect to accomplish, based the Introduction to Green Bar Patrol Training. Declare the Patrol officially formed with you as its Patrol Leader, the Senior Patrol Leader as Assistant Patrol Leader, Assistant Scoutmasters and Junior Assistants as special instructors, judges in contest, leaders of games and handicraft activities, and the boy leaders as the members of the Patrol.


(Telling the boys what you expect to accomplish sound an awful lot like an EXPLANATION of the program to me)


© Make Notebooks: Fold letter-head sized sheets in half, or use a cheap composition book for each member in member in which he can take notes. Insist that a sufficient amount of notes be taken by all boy leaders.


(Insisting the Boy take a sufficient amount of notes? I thought the concept of Scouting as school is to be eschewed, where is the Adventure in having your scoutmaster insist you take notes? )


(d) Discussion of Patrol Name: The why and how of selecting a name that will have a definite significance to the Patrol. Talk over various names. Make a preliminary selection of a few, then put them to popular vote. Decide upon the Patrol Cry and Call to fit the name.


(Sounds like an EXPLANATION of why and how a patrol name has significance. Having the youth vote on the Patrol Name looks like an DEMONSTRATION of how a patrol makes decisions, the adult leader GUIDED and then ENABLED the Patrol name selection)


(e) Call and Yell Contest: Have each pair of buddies get up a rousing Patrol call and develop a short yell, incorporating the Patrol name. Vote for best yell.


(See above, GUIDING and ENABLING the patrol to adopt a yell)


(f) Patrol Flag Contest: Using the same buddies, have teams prepare a rough sketch of a flag for the Patrol. The idea counts more than artistic execution. Hold short Art Gallery session, and vote for best design to be made into permanent flag.


(See Above)


(g) Instruction Games: such as Signal Winks, Buddy Knotting, Buddy Slings, Scout Law Acting. Use buddy teams throughout. Winners give Patrol Call.


(See Above)


(h) Election of Members: to fill the jobs of Patrol Treasurer, Scribe, Quartermaster, Hikemaster, Grubmaster, Cheermaster. In case of a large group, turn a single job over to a buddy team to handle. Rotate these jobs monthly to give each boy a chance.


(Hey, every boy gets a chance? I thought you picked the natural leader and you were done with it, this rotating jobs sounds gosh darn awfully modern)


(i) Work Session: With the "job-holders" chosen, get them busy right away. Have a short session to get them started on their responsibilities-the Treasurer developing a budget, the Scribe filling in pages of the Patrol Record Book; the Hikemaster working out a route to a camp site; the Grubmaster making up a Patrol menu; the Cheermaster producing a list of songs popular with the Patrol members.


(I have to Channel my main man, Maynard G Krebs, WORK? Where is the Adventure in Budgeting, filling out tables? Figuring out a route to camp? Making up a Menu? Compiling Songs?)


(j) Handicraft Project: Have each boy draw from a hat the name of a Tenderfoot knot and provide him with the necessary pieces of rope to produce the knot for a knot-board. Main project is to whip rope ends, and the finished knots to be turned over to volunteering buddy team for mounting.


(At last, a scoutcraft skill. Woo hoo)


(k) Recreational Games: Two or three, such as Bean Race, Hot Air, Laughing Handkerchief, or Artist's Menagerie. If time is short, run game only until the Scouts have caught on to the rules, then shift to another. The object should always be to give the boy leaders a variety of program material for their Patrol meetings, rather than to play each game to its completion.


(You let the boys play to catch onto the rules and not to completion? Sounds like a dirty trick a teacher in a school would pull, unless of course the whole intention is to DEMONSTRATE how to present the game


(l) Simple Closing Ceremony: Singing of Taps (See Also: Taps in Indian Sign Language).


(Sounds like a DEMONSTRATION of how to do a closing ceremony)


After Meeting:


Before dismissing the Training Patrol, give a short summary of the ground covered. Tell the leaders to make use of the material in their next Patrol meetings, and ask each Patrol Leader to make a short talk on how the material worked out at next training meeting.


Follow this procedure after all future training meetings.


(Sounds like the scoutmaster EXPLAINS the material covered,(the stuff DEMONSTRATED) then the Patrol Leaders are GUIDED to use the material at their next patrol meetings, which is when they would be ENABLED to use it)


(This is Lesson one, there are 7 total activities, each one is an explanation of what/how to do something mixed with demonstrations and the boys being guided through skills and activities and encouraged to use these skills. The whole training program is set up for the Scoutmaster to DEMONSTRATE to the patrol leaders how to run their patrol, he GUIDES them through learning the skills required while giving he EXPLAINS the reasons for doing so with the result being the patrol ENABLED to do a Campout on their own (OK, current BSA regulations say they need adults, but we both agree the adults would be at least 300 feet away))


From a certain point of view, this trainig program (an excellent it is) is based on EDGE and do you know what? Because its a excellent training program and EDGE can be used in excellent training program


But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong

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As I'm reading through the multiple simultaneous threads on this topic, I have to wonder if people either don't understand or disagree with the premise that the components that make up a training method are not the same as the training method as a whole. I have never read anyone criticise the processes of explanation, demonstration, guiding or enabling. The criticism seems to be towards the EDGE method as a whole - and there is more to EDGE than just explanation, demonstration, guiding and enabling.


To use a cooking analogy, let's say that we're entering a cooking contest at summer camp. Say that you take some flour, milk, sugar and eggs, along with some other ingredients, and make a fantastic pound cake. I take some flour, milk, sugar and eggs, along with some other ingredients, and try to make a coffee cake. But, I don't use the correct quantity of each ingredient, and I mix in ingredients in the wrong order, and I bake it in the wrong size pan, and I burn it a little bit. Naturally, you're delicious pound cake is going to win the cooking contest, and my attempt at coffee cake will lose. Even though my coffee cake still has some nutritional value, probably won't kill you if you eat it, and you may even find a handful of people that are willing to eat a slice of it. Now say I go to the judges and say that your pound cake and my coffee cake are essentially the same thing - they both contain flour, milk, sugar and eggs! - if my coffee cake is so bad, how can his pound cake be so good?


That's exactly how this conversation on educational methods seems to be going. There's nothing inherently wrong with the discrete concepts of explanation, demonstration, guiding and enabling. The concern is how the BSA took these four concepts, along with some other concepts that didn't make it into the acronym, tied them all together and presented them as a finished product. So why is everyone so focused on picking out an effective example of education, and identifying where explanation, demonstration, guiding and enabling were used? Of course those methods will be used at some point - but that doesn't mean the educator was using EDGE as a method - it means he was using some training method which happened to share some components with EDGE. Like in the cooking example - the pound cake contained flour, milk, sugar and eggs. The coffee cake contained flour, milk, sugar and eggs. Would anybody try to say that they're the same thing?


I guess I'm wondering if people disagree with this? Or if I'm misunderstanding the point that OGE was trying to make in his last post?

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the worst part of Internet Forums is going back to explain yourself when you thought you hit it out of the park


The training program Kudu provides the link to is the way Scoutmasters should train his PLC


I looked at the first meeting and commented when I saw explanations, demonstrations, guidance and enabling. The Program is excellent, make no mistake about that. And its excellent and it has plenty of explanations, demonstrations, guidance and enabling (Enable, a word that got a bad rep nearly as fast as gay)


I'm not sure how you teach a physical skill, psychomotor skill if you will if you don't explain, demonstrate guide and enable.


To me the whole point of the entire program is to demonstrate to the Patrol Leaders being trained how to run meetings, teach skills, plan and do a hike and then a camp out. The heart of the matter is presenting the Patol Method by having the scouts live it. Is that not a Demonstration?


Requiring EDGE will not kill the BSA, having units or councils who keep chartering organizations in the dark about their rights and responsbilites will kill the BSA. Council volunteers who allow the professionals to usurp the volunteer roles and oversight will kill the BSA. Adults who want to impose their will on the youth of the unit with regard to the will of the youth will kill the BSA, it wont be because of a training acronym, which Ed has commented on is the way its always been done and I guess I proved it

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