What to do with older slackers?

[Beavah]

Get Outdoors asked a great question that seemed like a great new topic!

 

I still don't know what to do with these few older scouts. They have met the official requirments for advancement, participate in most troop meetings but I just cant get them on camping trips or anything outside of a Troop meeting. Trips that they sugested we do! Basically I think they are being lazzy or maybe "been there done that" or just have had enough of the outdoor program thing. However, if we let them slid on participation, where do we draw the line with the younger scouts. They could all basically camp a few times a year, do rank advancement and merit badges at home. Serve as leaders by text, Facebook and Twitter. We could all just get together a few times a year for COH's. I'll have the SM conferances with them via webcam. "scouting in the 21st century"......Kinda scary, isn't it.

 

 

My main concern, is these few "slackers" (they are really great kids)are pulling down the rest of the older boy patrol. Peer pressure, "well he isn't going so i guess I wont go just so I look cool" I'm thinking of pulling the plug on this patrol and mixing them into our very active experinced patrols.

 

What do yeh think?

[CA_Scouter]

I had two guys give me some trouble last year, they were dragging down their patrol, so I approached with a positive attitude, a 'pep' talk if you will, and compared them to 2 Life scouts I had a couple a years back who were doing the same thing. They remembered how those 2 were 'boat anchors' and when they left the troop was better for it... so I asked them how they would like to be remembered, as 'boat anchors' or leaders. They perked up but now one of them is sliding back... but with him I have..... LEVERAGE. He is a Life scout so I flat out told him if he doesn't improve he won't get by me on the Scout Spirit issue. We'll see how it goes...

 

 

[John-in-KC]

1) When was the last time you had a quiet Scoutmaster Conference with a "slacker"? What's going on in his life? Almost as important, who matters in his life?

 

2) What program is the Troop challenging him with? The same old month to month campout? He's probably decided "been there, done that." If you're not, in your mentoring, challenging him to challenge himself, you have only yourself to look in the mirror. Worse, if he's asked for challenge, and you or the PLC have said no, then the burden is completely on you.

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

I have 3 scouts kind of like this. All are life and are 4-7 months from turning 18. All went to summer camp but went on high adventure (no MBs). They collectively attended only 3 other campouts last year. Two are active in sports and all 3 have jobs. They only show up to meetings to discuss Eagle projects or badges, and never in a uniform. All have completed their active/6 months and POR requirements years ago.

 

I worked hard to encourage activities which were unique for them, but they just wouldn't bite. One will likely make Eagle (being pushed hard by a parent, needing only 2 MBs and has the most time before 18), the other two will have to work pretty hard to make it. The youngest of the scouts do not even really know the older ones and will be unmotivated to assist on their Eagle projects, if they ever put them together.

 

These older scouts have a chip on their shoulder when they do show up. It is unfortunate. I have met with them on many occasions, but they refuse to participate. All have excellent scouting skills and could contribute considerably to the troop; yet I am somewhat relieved when they do not show up to meetings as their attitude and appearance have a very negative impact on the younger scouts.

 

Have I given up on them? No. I am supporting them as they work toward Eagle. I am, however, placing much more stock in our younger scouts. Completing a few MBs and an ESLSP will do little to change their attitudes at 17.

[SMT224]

Why "do" anything?

 

There are a few Scouts in our Troop that are similar to what you've described - not going on as many camping trips as they used to, not participating in other activities, missing Troop meetings...

 

Well, the fact of the matter is that they have other things going on in their lives now - sports, girls, jobs. If they are more interested in these things, there is little we can do to to make Scout more interesting.

 

Our past attempts to pull such Scouts into activities they are just not interesting in has not been good for anyone. If they'd rather be with their girl, or at the game, dragging them on a camping trip results in a boat anchor that drags everyone down.

 

These guys chose not to attend our last few camping trips, and the younger guys had a great time! They got to do their thing without the older "bummers" sitting around the fire and telling them what to do.

 

If they can come and be an active part in the Scout activity, great! Their experience, knowledge, and older-guy-coolness makes it a better activity.

 

But if they don't want to be there and they're pissed about it, that attitude will affect and permeate into everyone on the activity. We find it's better if they just don't come if they don't want to.

 

Eventually they do come back, on their own terms and at their own time, and can join in making the Troop better for everyone. Until then, my experience is that forcing it just makes it worse.

 

[CA_Scouter]

1) Last week. He assures me all is ok and that he will get back into the spirit of things. I spoke to his Mother in a casual conversation and she has noticed the same lack of spirit and it concerns her... so I am optimistic that family will step in and address the issue.

 

2) The same program my other 15 scouts are enjoying. Perhaps he is bored... but I've got 15 out of 16 who aren't bored, so do I change it just for him? No. But challenging him in other areas is a good idea and a better approach than me simply being a gatekeeper ( and perhaps I'm a little grouchy about it ).

 

 

"Worse, if he's asked for challenge, and you or the PLC have said no, then the burden is completely on you. "

 

Um. No. This is not the case. You assume facts not in evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

My oldest boy in the troop fits this description. He's 15, Life scout, done with his MB's and EP. He's made it known he's going to quit just as soon as he gets his Eagle. He came and wanted me to sign off on his project. I asked him if by my signing it means he's quitting? He all but said yes. I said good, because he has quit caring, showed very little if any leadership and was not a good role model for my other scouts to follow for the past year.

 

I got the deer in the headlight look. His dad was just a couple of feet away when I said it and said nothing. His dad is an Eagle with palms and is my ASM.

 

I told the boy with his 4.2 GPA, success in sports, and all the other things he's done he's suceeded, but in scouting he's been a failure. Self-esteem is built through a series of successes and having everyone tell you how great you are, but self-confidence is built though a series of failures and what you do to pull yourself back together. I congratulated him on his first major step towards self-confidence and wished him luck. He still has to do the EBOR and a major impact on that would be a SM recommendation. I asked him what I should honestly say in my recommendation for him. He stood in silence and didn't say anything. I said, Okay, I can stand silence too. I then signed his paper and walked away. The ball is in court.

 

This was two weeks ago and he did come back to the meeting this past week. I'm hoping some of the discussion might have made an impact. Time will tell.

 

Stosh

[dg98adams]

"but in scouting he's been a failure"

 

Let me get this straight, you told a "Life Scout" who is preparing to work on his Eagle Project he has been a failure as a Scout?

 

 

INMO if there's a "failure" it's you in labeling a youth. Remember, the aim in Scouts is not to reach Eagle, just 1st Class. Do you encourage a Scout who only ever achieves 1st class to hang his head in shame forever?

 

I'm only surprised the dad did not hand you your head.

[Stosh]

But he didn't because he pretty much agreed with me. I also called another boy a slug because he didn't do anything, when his dad (former SM) was standing nearby. I did it three weeks in a row and the boy walked out of the meeting the first two times.

 

If it is expected that a boy develop leadership skills to be functional in his life and when it doesn't happen, then he has failed at the task. This is a boy that has been told repeatedly over the years how great he has been doing in everything he does. Well, he hasn't shown it to the level of an Eagle Scout and he is fully aware of it so I wasn't telling him anything that he didn't already know.

 

I as a BSA leader I am responsible for assisting young boys to become young men. When that doesn't happen, in spite of all that I do, then it's time to call a spade a spade and quit with the self-esteem soothing of his ego. Only through adversity is he going to build self-confidence. He screwed up, identify the problem and work on it. If he chooses not to, then not only did he fail at the task, but he has choosen to be a failure. Only when one overcomes their failings do they become stronger and more self-confident.

 

By the way, the "slug" boy is finishing up his Eagle Project as we speak, will age out in January, is already asking to be an ASM, is signed up for basic leadership training this spring and Wood Badge next fall after his stint as 3rd ASM for a Centennial Jamboree contingent next summer.

 

Hand me my head anytime. Just make sure there's just reason for it. I find that being honest with this kids is important and in most cases appreciated by both the boy and his parents.

 

As far as rank advancement goes, I don't really care what patch he's wearing on his pocket or whether or not there's a POR patch on his sleeve. If I have boys demonstrating leadership and functioning in their responsibilities, I'm happy. I have had tenderfoot patrol members showing more leadership than their First Class PL. They correct this on their own and in their own ways. I'm not the only one out there that knows who's achieving and who isn't. There are not adult rules out there that monitor this process either. If the patrol wants a tenderfoot to replace their first class PL, it's a done deal. End of discussion. As long as one fulfills their responsibility there's no reason to make any changes.

 

Now that you mention it, it is rather strange that after 40 years of working with youth, no parent/adult has ever felt it necessary to hand me my head.

 

Stosh

 

Stosh

[highcountry]

What to do regarding older scouts seems to be a very common theme, but I don't agree it is as easy as blaming the adults for not having a good program or allowing the scouts to fix the program by what they put on the schedule, I have seen those scenarios play out and it doesn't fix the problem for the most part.

Our scouts put the annual calendar together from suggestions made by scouts and adults during the course of the year. We also encourage scouts, particulalry older ones to add events to the calendar that they plan and run entirely on thier own to develop planning and leadership (Skiing, skating, caving, biking hikes and other one day activities). To date no one has followed through, but I have one scout now who with a lot of prodding is setting up an additional activity.

 

Some of the past things the older scouts wanted that got onto the calendar were cancelled for lack or participation, all of the scouts who wanted those events on the calendar were ones who never signed up despite reminders form adult leaders. We have had them suggest ski outings and the same scouts cancelled out of the troop event becuase they got invited by friends to ski somewhere else with kids their age etc the same day.

 

We can't compete with everything there is out there to occupy kids time, I am slowly losing a few really good scouts who are Eagle and 16-18 years old, they want swimming, wrestling, cars, girls and jobs. They have camped enough and are not interested enough in white water, biking, sking, backpacking etc as a troop, even the RAMS crew or OA is not of interest, they have been there, done that and want to hang with their high school friends and do high school things, this is not unussual, it's life as teenagers in America today.

 

In response to some of the later postings, I too,once again have a slacker trying to make his Eagle. He hasn't been on a campout in a year, provides no mentoring, coaching leadership or work ethic in the troop at all. He is 15 and a half and has stated he is done the instant he gets Eagle, our re-charter is in February. In his POR he has been a place to sew a patch and stand at meetings, and has done nothing else. He is very smart so good grades come easy but he demonstrates the same lack of commitment to other activities outside the troop. He is a good kid but has never shown any form of leadership and has been somewhat negative in the troop. Things have deteriorated so badly that he is having a terrible time getting scouts to help on his Eagle project, we have been told by numerous scouts that they won't show up and help as he has he shows no leadership and basically does nothing in the troop, even some of our 11 year old crossovers in the spring have readily observed this. To make htings worse, his Mom is our advancement and merit badge coordinator, she does her her job dependably but molly koddles her boys like nothing I have ever witnessed before. She understnds the BSA program well but is blind the the "mama's boys she is raising". We are certain that some or most of her boys Eagle Req'd. Merit badges were mostly done by mom and signed off (She councils 9 of these badges) but we can't actually prove it.

All the ASM's, myself (SM) and the CC sat down with thsi scout a couple wweks ago and told him nicely what was up. We told him we knew he was through with scouts but in order to make Eagle he had to show particpation, leadership and scout spirit in the next 5 months before Re-charter. He was good with it and since then has done everything we have asked to happen to date. Mom of course had to come in and defend her son and how unfair it all is, she took up 45 minutes of our time before I had to put my foot down and tell her that her son was good with what was asked. One of my asm's pointed out her son si the only scout we have ahd so far that has his mommy to act as his agent. I think she realizes she cannot win this one and is now silent, we are getting a new MB Coordiantor, Advancement Cahir to replace her as she too was slated to be doen when her son made Eagle. With 4 months left to go we have a new person to fill the shoes and the son is so far doing what was requested.

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Highcountry,

 

Unfortunately that makes him an excellent follower, but not a leader. Most boys excel in following and doing what they are told by their parents, their coaches, their pastors, their teachers, etc. But none of that makes them a leader. How does one measure leadership when all the boy does is follow directions?

 

Stosh

[bacchus]

What to do with older slackers?

 

Some COs start up a Venture Crew and let them organize themselves and decide what they want to do.

[highcountry]

Not entirely Jblake. We know he wants Eagle and we know he intends to drop at the end of February. We discussed all the short comings and the need for him to grow up and do things outside mom's cover, that actually working hard at and completing things neeing to be done and not waiting for adults assigning it to him is where he needed to go in his route to becoming a young man. We gave guidance on exactly what things he needed to be doing since over time he has become so detatched from any commitment, leadership or responsibility that without the guidance he would be bewildered.

 

We laid out for him all the things he needed to improve on and be doing and that he had to be EXTREMELY active and engaged for 4 months to make up for 4 years of coasting and his mom running interference. We gave him a laundry list but it was up to him to plan, communicate and carry these things through. There may be a little bit of following there but most of what he is now doing is all being planned and done himeself or with other scouts at his palnning and direction, I see nothing wrong with that.

 

We had our troop meeting last night and he had a markedly different attitude, far more positive and engaed than I have seen in a very long time. He is actively planning our coming patrol LEaders Council, he is setting up the bicyle trip he had abandonned this summer, he is attending our Camporee and is both SPL and helping District at the ranges, he is leading the plan for our November campout and is asking one ASM about helping coordinate our December activity with the 2 local packs. We had an issue come up yesterday and he helped offer a solution that was adopted. He worked with the younger scouts last night and even asked to help read parts of the Agenda at the begining of the meeting. I see that as positive progress.

[Mike F]

highcountry,

 

Right on! You're in the trenches with the young man and it looks like you've found a way to wake him up. That's what they pay us the big bucks for!

[Eagledad]

>>Our scouts put the annual calendar together from suggestions made by scouts and adults during the course of the year. We also encourage scouts, particulalry older ones to add events to the calendar that they plan and run entirely on thier own to develop planning and leadership (Skiing, skating, caving, biking hikes and other one day activities). To date no one has followed through, but I have one scout now who with a lot of prodding is setting up an additional activity.