What is / is not tolerable behavoir in a leader ?

[Eric5675]

I'm currently an SPL, and this is my view:

 

I would go to the Troop Committee and ask for removal of any form of leadership if the following were to occur repeatidly:

1. Smoking in view of Scouts

2. Cursing in front of a Scout (everyday language and conversation; not "oh s%^t I just hit my thumb with a hammer")

3. Reapeated rudeness, disrespect, or degrading conversation to a Scout.

4. Inappropriate comments (ie: sex jokes, penis size jokes)

5. Dangerous Driving (NOT DUI)

6. Yelling

7. Violation of ANY ONE BSA procedure repeatedly

 

Things I would ask for immediant dismissal of a SM include:

1. Drinking in front of a Scout, at a campout, or in any form during a Scout event. (The only exception is if a Scout is at your house becuase he's friends with your son and sees you drinking. That's outside of Scouts)

2. Striking a Scout including his own Scout

3. Sexual Abuse of any Scout

4. Illegal drug use

5. Putting any Scout in a dangerous situation

6. Discrimination

7. Any fellony conviction

8. Bad influence in general.

[hingram]

As the child of a World War 2 vet who was led by World War 2 vets in Scouts, I find the rules in the previous post to be amazing. All our leaders smoked, cussed, yelled (although rarely at us), drank, etc. Except for the smoking, there were not common occurrences but they did happen.

 

I would say that failure to obey the protection rules (never alone with a scout) would be grounds for review.

 

 

[evmori]

Interesting list.

 

I would go to the Troop Committee and ask for removal of any form of leadership if the following were to occur repeatidly:

1. Smoking in view of Scouts

While not a good thing this is not a reason to remove a leader.

 

2. Cursing in front of a Scout (everyday language and conversation; not "oh s%^t I just hit my thumb with a hammer")

Why not "Oh sh*t I just hit my thumb with a hammer". It should be all or nothing.

 

3. Reapeated rudeness, disrespect, or degrading conversation to a Scout.

Too subjective. What might be rude to one person isn't to another.

 

4. Inappropriate comments (ie: sex jokes, penis size jokes)

I would agree.

 

5. Dangerous Driving (NOT DUI)

Too hard to define.

 

6. Yelling

No. This one makes no sense.

 

7. Violation of ANY ONE BSA procedure repeatedly

It would depend on which BSA procedure is is. All are not equal.

 

Things I would ask for immediant dismissal of a SM include:

1. Drinking in front of a Scout, at a campout, or in any form during a Scout event. (The only exception is if a Scout is at your house becuase he's friends with your son and sees you drinking. That's outside of Scouts)

I would agree.

 

2. Striking a Scout including his own Scout

I would agree.

 

3. Sexual Abuse of any Scout

I would agree.

 

4. Illegal drug use

I would agree.

 

5. Putting any Scout in a dangerous situation

Too hard to define. There are some activities in Scouting that are dangerous in nature.

 

6. Discrimination

Again, too hard to define.

 

7. Any fellony conviction

This is a no-brainer.

 

8. Bad influence in general.

Again, too hard to define.

 

You put a lot of thought into this Eric5675. What do you feel would be good reasons to remove a youth leader (PS, SPL, etc.)?

[FScouter]

Good lists Eric5675. We adult leaders would be well-advised to pay attention. This isn't rocket science.

[ScoutMomSD]

from this board I would add the following to intorable behavior:

 

1) a Democrat

2) any religion other than Christian or LDS (for many faiths RC are NOT Christians)

3) being gay or thinking you are gay or knowing someone who is gay or voting against prop 8

 

gotta get back to my box of twinkies

 

[gwd-scouter]

Oh well, guess I'm out.

[eagle1977]

GWD, maybe you and I can start our own organization, lol!

[BadenP]

There is a lot of truth though in ScoutMom's post though, sometimes intolerance is disguised as playful banter or outright attacks.

[gwd-scouter]

Yep, I'm a triple threat:

 

I'm a Democrat

I'm not a Christian

I'm gay

 

as in, "I feel pretty, and witty, and gay"

 

Have a nice day folks.

[Hal_Crawford]

For a minute there I thought we were seeing the "outing in scouting"!

[eagle1977]

Hal,

 

now that was just down right funny, thanks.

[desertrat77]

Practices change. A scout in the seventies, I recall the scoutmasters' beer cooler being present on campouts. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but I certainly would not follow suit as an adult leader myself.

 

As an assistant scoutmaster attending my council's scout leader training in 1985, a cadre member counseled me--in the most condescending manner possible--about my sheath knife. According to him, my knife was unsafe, a poor example for the scouts, a crime against the universal goals of scouting, it needed to be removed from my belt immediately and hidden from view, etc. During his lecture, he was smoking a cigarette, inhaling each puff deep into his lungs, savoring it...as if it were his last. Irony indeed.

 

While serving as an ASM, we troop leaders refrained from drinking, smoking and swearing (and yes, wearing sheath knifes!) in front of the scouts. Once every other month or so, we adults would go camping without the scouts, on own time, and drink beer, smoke cigars, and use colorful language.

 

Back to the topic: I would not do anything that would give even the appearance of impropriety at BSA sanctioned events. No need to tarnish reputations or demonstrate behavior that conflicts with BSA standards or with the values a scout's parents might be trying to instill at home. On my own time, I avoid behavior that is illegal and would bring discredit myself, my family, and scouting.

 

I fully concur with getting rid of the adult troublemakers...whatever they may contribute, they aren't worth the heartache. Folks can stir the pot, play devil's advocate, be a curmudgeon and the like...that keeps life interesting and entertaining. But are all familiar with the Troop Disrupter...the sooner they depart, the better.

 

The obesity issue is a delicate subject. Someone may have already mentioned this, but I'd recommend focusing on fitness rather than weight. Regardless of weight, am I reasonably active? Can I hike and swim? We all have limitations as life progresses, but the scouts are watching.

 

 

[ThunderFox]

I see lots of posts in theis thread that say I think this is ok but that is not or I think this is not ok but that is.

 

Folks, this is not a quilting Bee where we exchange opinions on how we should all behave, it is about being leaders to Boy Scouts who we expect to learn and follow rules.

 

I remember many years ago that I signed a form that my signature attested to my pledge to follow the rules, regulations and policies of the Boys Scouts of America. Scouts know this and they are aware of the rules because we teach them the rules. They can tell you which leaders are the hypocrites.

 

We exhort Eagles to "Lead, but lead only to the best"; well, we need to strive to that end ourselves. We are not striving when we can allow ourselves "just one" or make other excuses for ourselves. That is a choice, not an accident. A rare accidental under the breath expletive immediately follow by an apology is a human error. Choosing to drink, curse regularly, verbally abuse others, discriminate, be sexist, etc. are all intolerable behaviours and are reasons to be asked to leave.

 

If you are serious about being a Scouter, following the rules is part and parcel of your pledge. What is intolerable is being a bad leader because you think its ok to make excuses for your own behaviour forbidden by BSA.

 

 

[fleetfootedfox]

Yeah, ThunderFox, you'd think Boy Scout leaders of all people would not have so much trouble following rules, but there are lots of opinions out there for everything under the sun. The BSA tends to hand out more guidelines then actual rules, and even the rules can be interpreted differently by different people. Then there are those who just don't see any problem with breaking the rules if it suits them, and they have lots of rationalizations for this. So, there have been a lot of discussions about this on these forums. You might want to look at some of the previous related threads if you haven't noticed them before.

[Troop24]

ThunderFox,

 

When I chose to start down this path path into Scouting more than 30 years ago as a youth member and I continue today on the journey, with my son, I have never expected perfection in any adult Scouter that I have encountered. I have been simply expecting them and myself to do our "best" to our duty to God, to our country, and to obey the Scout Law. We are after all mere mortals, not immortals, we are not capable of being perfect in any way.

 

Free will allows some of us to choose to smoke, even though we know that it is harmful, yet BSA looks the other way when leaders do that out of the view of the youth; and while I am free of that habit, some of us will choose to have a drink of alcohol or two, I am among those, though I never do at a BSA event. Does that make me less than qualified to be an adult leader? Should I turn my Eagle Scout Badge back into National Headquarters?

 

From where I sit there is no perfect organization in existence that is cranking out perfect little citizens free from every imaginable defect leading the rest us to freedom. I cannot think of one political, religious, educational, or other organization that can boast a perfect record.

 

I do not judge anyone. I simply ask them to do their level best to be fair, honest, and try to live up to the Scout Oath and Law. Adult leaders are there to set the example not to be sanctimonious critics of their peers.

 

[[climbs off soapbox now]]