The grass is greener and other questions

[CricketEagle]

I am sure many of you have faced these questions over and over.

 

I would be interested in your solutions and opinions.

 

My questions to you all out there are:

 

1. When young Webelos crossed over, what % did you lose simply because parents still want an adult led program. How do you put an end to the cubscout mode when you suspect that the parents may not adjust? (note the boys usualy adjust, but the parents may be another issue)

2. How many of you face the old grass is greener in troop XXX comments? How do you handle those?

3. How many of you have troubled scouts? I am surprised at the % in our troop. However, I am also impressed that most of it is dealt with relatively well by the boy leadership.

 

[moosetracker]

We hopped troops twice with our son. It was not that the grass was greener, we chose to leave, then figured out where to jump to. More about, what was wrong where we were, not how great someone elses program was.

 

I find more a lot of scouts who should move, but do not.. Fear of not fitting into a new group mostly. So they stay, and complain and complain, and some are even reduced to tears over how much of a mess their troop is in, and how no matter what they try to do to fix it, they are sabbatoged by the adults..

 

We lost crossovers to other troops when we were in bad troops and ready to move ourselves.. Smart move on the parents/kids part. The easiest time to steer a kid away from a bad troop is before he grows roots. From what I saw the boys ended up in two different troops that were boy lead, we ended up in a third that was boy led (at least while my son was a youth, it is not adult run and a poor program).. From what I can tell they still get the crossovers from adjacent Pack though, but I am removed from it, so there may be a few intellegent Boys/Parents who have choosen a different place..

 

There have been a few that have moved to good troops after joining though..

 

Nope, From what I see the boy run troops get the kids if not right away, then eventually.. When we were in a good boy run troop, we grew fast also, not from just the crossovers, but from boys who moved from poor troops to join a good boy-run troop. The bad troops hang on for dear life with kids who hate being there, but normally are there with the desire to reach Eagle and then get out, but not the courage to go someplace where they can enjoy the Scouting experience.

[Stosh]

I always lost boys to adult-led, troop-method troops after the cross-overs. Some of this was parent oriented, still expecting cub type of program, some from the boys who didn't want to do any of the work, only come and participate in a program, not really run it themselves.

 

After I left, both the local troops became adult-led, troop-method and so it solved the membership problem for the troop.

 

Stosh

[Engineer61]

When my SS crossed over, I think there were 10 in the group. Only 5 crossed over.

 

- Some wanted to do middle school and outside sports

 

- A couple of parents were in the "Whew, that's finally over!" crowd

 

- I think at least one had religious issues.

[CricketEagle]

The more I think about this,

 

I guess I would have been the "troubled" youth when I was a boy.

 

The troop I am working with is becoming a decent boy led troop. I am witnessing more issues with adult expectations than with the boy's.

[qwazse]

1. Not sure of the percentage. And leadership structure was not the only issue.

2. The boys in our troop love it there. Some boys whose parents spun off to another troop miss "our grass."

3. You all heard me say it before. We need a sign: "Troop ___, we take bad kids!"

[Twocubdad]

1. Not sure of a percentage, but it happens. I actually think we lose more boys to the notion that the program will require them to work at things. They much prefer the YMCA and private camps with counselors there to powder their butt, dining halls with a chef making custom omlets in the morning and an aquatics staff whch fetches the canoe and holds it steady while you climb aboard. Apparently the concierge staff on our campouts is not up to par....

 

2. Over the years we've had a few but almost always it's the parent driving the switch and almost always because Dear Sweet Thing wasn't handed some advancement or position mommy and daddy thought he deserved. We've received a couple Scouts for similar reasons but most incoming transfers are Scouts with old-school dads (yes, it's the dad) who want a more traditional program for their son. Only one time have we had a Scout transfer to another troop where I felt the change was needed and beneficial. The kid was a real goof-off and ranther odd. He developed a reputation of being, well, odd and unreliable. I thing he really wanted to change, but boys being boys wouldn't give him a chance. A clean slate at a new troop was a really good thing for him.

 

3. Troubled? Heck, they're teenaged boys. They're all troubled. You've got to be more specific.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Tampa Turtle]

Sigh...I wish our cabal of defectors would just hurry up and defect...

 

I think we lose a few to more adult led spit-and-polish Troops. We gain a few from parents (often military) who have been in those Troops and flee them. Lose about 20% of cross-overs to sports, boys are usually just getting into the better teams by then and the parents are concerned about the time commitment. About 10% of boys don't come because parents are tired/not ready to let boys go off alone/boys hate camping/dislike BSA.

 

Talked to a parent last night who was frustrated that their boy hated camping. I probed if it was a tent-buddy/personal/bully issue but it seems he really prefers to sleep inside with electronics not in a tent. Parent wants him to enjoy it but doesn't. Considering moving to another Troop. I explained that we are an outdoor-oriented Troop and that is an issue...some Troops camp less but even at that it is a big part of scouting.

 

IMHO the grass is greener syndrome is true to church, work, scout groups:

 

(1) Adults b*t*ch a lot but few actually leave. There is a cost to leaving the familiar and most folks are wedded to the routine. It will always seem better somewhere else.

 

(2) Once folks have left they usually stay where they went. They have paid a cost to leave and maybe burned a bridge or too.

 

(3) When it comes to their kids these days parents are much more aggressive in seeking out the "optimal" youth experience for the boy be it scouts, Sunday school, public school, or sports. A certain minority will shop and move; once they start it gets easier.

 

 

[chaoman45]

1. 0%. Don't allow new parents direct interaction with Scouts. Our troop has a rule - no new dads on summer camp. Deemphasise, but don't eliminate, their propensity to "help." I've gotten into a few fights over this (verbal, of course), but if you stand your ground they back down.

 

2. Not many recently.

 

3. Depends on how you define troubled. We have Scouts with conditions that get made fun of more frequently, Scouts who intentionally sabotage leadership, and those who don't want to be there. Domestically, they are all okay. Not sure of %...

[OldGreyEagle]

Apparently despite our arguments to Enginner61 that parents are not relegated to the sidelines, they are

[Engineer61]

OGE ...

 

That's OK dude ... BTDT on the relegation ... but thanks for the honesty.

[CricketEagle]

troubled boys defined;

 

two general types:

 

1. Lonely boys, those needing the typical home out of scouting. (split parents, dont fit in at school etc)..maybe 20% plus

 

2. Those with diagnosed problems. (ADHD, general anxiety disorders, behavior problems.). currently running over 15% on those.

 

Overall I am fairly impressed at how the older boys adapt around these issues.

 

[CricketEagle]

Grass is greener defined:

 

I know have in my hands the annual plan of the adjacent "super troop".

 

Darn I am impressed. Monthly BIG trips often out of state. Every trip advancement and outdoor oreinted.

 

Now I am not knocking "super troops" as I came from one and it can be done. But this is way over the top. I would love to have that troop's budget.

 

I think that parts of this can be done and organized by the boys, but I suspect that much is really adult driven.

 

Regardless, I wish the parent "gripers" would get over with it, help fix the problem or get out. I am not hearing boys complain.

[moosetracker]

About troops with high cost trips monthly.

 

Some troops have found a super niche fundraiser and money rolls in for a days worth of work.

 

Some have the scouts working fundraiser after fundraiser.. ick..

 

Others expect Moms & Dads with deep pockets..

 

I do envy the ones with the niche fundraisers.. The others I don't envy at all.

[Oak Tree]

1. Zero percent, as far as I can tell. We do lose Scouts, but it tends to be either to sports or because the boy just doesn't enjoy Scouting. Why is this? Hard to say for sure, but we spend a lot of time with the parents describing how the program works. I often view my role on camping trips to be coaching of the adult leaders and parents - we laugh and joke about how I'm always whispering in their ears about where they might back off. We do have a camping trip each year with the Webelos II dens and this is a perfect chance to spend some real time with the incoming parents.

2. We haven't faced this. Ironically, we've received a few transfers from our local super-troop because the boys seem to prefer our more laid back approach.

3. Yes, we have troubled Scouts. If you include boys with autism-spectrum disorder or ADHD, it seems like we've got more than the typical percentage of the population.