Committee Chair Person problem

[ScoutBox 11]

Our Committee Chair Person is a real problem for the SM and ASMs. in fact she is a problem for everyone. She is first very negative. You has for help or a question and you only receive negative replies. She only wants to do it her way. Our SM wants to bring all of the ASMs to the next Committee Meeting, but she doesn't want them. She doesn't encourage any training for Committee Members, and only takes advice from the past SM, and Committee Chair. What can be done. Can she limit who can attend a Committee Meeting. What should we do?

[moosetracker 132]

Seems to be a virus, as this assumption has been going around. There was someone else only a few weeks ago who mentioned the CC stated an ASM who came to a committee meeting was not welcome. They were told they should not attend by their Unit Commissioner. When the SM asked the UC, he verified that is indeed what they told the CC.

 

I would try to pull the info, but don't remember enough about the title to get a solid match, maybe someone else can.

 

Anyway, the general consensus on this board was, that although ASM (as well as SM's) do not have the right to vote on the committee, the board should be open to them as most of them are active parents. The only time for a closed board would be for sensitive items, otherwise like all the rest of BSA nothing should be secritive..

 

Our board encouraged our ASM's to come, but they never did out of protest of not having a vote. But the SM as well as ASM's were important to hear the viewpoints of when making any decision that effected thier program. Even if it wasn't setting policy in the program it would effect it. How much to budget for next year's program and how much to allocate in funds to equipment, awards, events etc. Who should take on the role of Outdoor Coordinator or Advancement Chair. What type of fundraising events to pursue in the upcoming year (usually which involved the scouts doing the legwork.)

 

If though your ASM's never came to committee meetings, and now ALL want to go to the next meeting, it sounds like you are planning some type of group stance on a certain subject. Is your CC attempting to react to a percieved threat?

 

"She only wants to do it her way" If you wanted to bring up complaint to the COR about her staying in this position, this may be what she is doing most wrong. The CC holds no power on their own, their power comes from the group vote of the committee. Of course sending her committee through "Troop Committee Challenge" should not threaten her feeling of keeping the committee in the dark over where the power lies, the training is worthless except to tell you what is expected of a secretary position, or treasury position. Cub Scout version is much better in teaching overall function of a committee.

 

Anyway if she is making all the decisions, or coercing the committee to her opinion before holding a vote, and not letting the committee hear differing views (ex. not allowing SM/ASM to voice their opinions) she is overstepping her bounds.. If the committee is making rules that are specifically program related (ex. choosing your events, deciding how the patrols will be formed etc.) the whole committee is overstepping their bounds with her at the helm.

 

Does your Troop have a good relationship with your COR? Maybe this is where the SM & ASM should go to as a group to voice their protests over the way she is running the committee.

[ScoutBox 11]

Thanks Moosetracker. I am an ASM and the Equipment Cord. I avoid the meetings because of the attitude of the Chair. She is very negative. And since she is also a part of the local Girl Scouts, is always comparing the Troop with the GS?? Last time I saw her was at our COH, or new DE was around, and although she spoke to him for a few minutes int eh hall, when the leaders from other troops arrive to meet him, she went home. She acts like out former SM who never would stay around to speak or try to get to know other adults. We have a culture problem with her and a few of the former leaders from the Troop. They are no longer involved, but try t play a roll int eh unit. The problem, is we have very good educated and informed leaders present, and the former leaders didn't do much in helping the Troop just working to slow down progress. The culture problem is they are all English. And see the Troop as some kind of fiefdom. They are afraid of change, and really anti BSA??? Yeah, we don't understand it either??

 

 

[CCbytrickery 10]

Could she be suffering from the "it's all about me" syndrome? Could she be one of those OCD types (like me) who needs things to be certain ways in order to handle them? Could she be burnt out?

 

Our DISTRICT training chair is one of those people. DTC is a nice person, but unable to complete the simplest of tasks without total chaos. DTC is always putting the focus on his needs/wants/family/etc. It's never just about the boys.

 

We had several Tiger parents last year who had been gung-ho Girl Scouts, and I really got tired of hearing the "the GS do it this way" or "in GS, we would never do x". I spoke to them, out of earshot of anyone, and explained that they were not helping matters with the "go go GS" comments; that we were now in the cub scouts and we had to do things this way. Fewer comments come out, and they are now mainly "we played this game or did this craft" comments. (I was just a mom of a cub last year, no position in the troop--DH was the Tiger DL though.)

 

I just started as the CC for our pack, and before I did anything, I went to the CM and asked him what he needed from me. I researched online about things other CCs did or did not do, and about things that made their pack run smoothly. I met with another new CC (though he has been in for several years as a DL) at our summer district camp and was able to get a lot of wonderful information from him.

 

Part of being in the CC position is getting to know all the troop leaders, the parents and being able to bridge the communication gap between the two--that is the biggest complaint I heard from people during my research--lack of consistent communication between leaders/parents. (which I wouldn't have known was a problem if I hadn't did research) So, I made the effort at the planning meeting to talk to a few people I had not really met before and get to know them a bit better. I will continue to do so, because I cannot help them with what they need or want if I don't know them.

 

If she is truly that much of a problem, then you should get with your fellow leaders and the SM, and remove her from her position. I don't know how that works in the BS level. Have someone ready to step in before you take any steps, though.(This message has been edited by CCbytrickery)

[qwazse 4345]

You have two options (well three, but you won't like the third one) ...

 

1. Tell the CC she needs to change her leadership style. If she doesn't you will apply to the COR to join the committee, and eventually ask to replace her.

 

2. Tell the COR she isn't working out, and suggest a different CC -- one that will grant ASMs voice on the committee.

 

3. Suck it up. Listen to her requests. Do what she says. In an SM's report to the committe tell how you've implemented her suggestions and evaluated of the results. Request a committee vote to approve/reject of the SM minutes. (That way you know if it's just her or a majority of the committee that are trying to guide you.)

 

Oh and regarding the GS thing, I always use the line to the boys "I promise never to treat you like you're a GS." You may want to use that within earshot of your committee members sometime.

[The Blancmange 67]

Some good thoughts here already. What do the other committee members do at meetings? Do they sit there like potted plants, or are they frustrated too? Has anyone (SM, COR) sat down with her, outside of a regular meeting, and expressed these concerns? That might work better than what what probably perceived as a threat when everyone was going to come to the committee meeting.

 

What is the COR's role in all of this? Is he/she active and even aware of the potential problems? That would probably be the best next step - a meeting with the COR to explain the situation.

[ScoutBox 11]

I've spoken to the CoR, she understands the situation, and at this moment isn't getting involved. I ask the SM to talk tot eh CC first, then if that doesn't work, speak to the CoR whom he is a good friend of. The Rest fo the Committee is staying out of the problem. They do what they are told, and that's that. not much adult attention in the troop, and the few who get involved try to run the show.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hiya ScoutBox!

 

Committees and troop membership change over time, eh? Yeh have a group that worked hard, learned a lot as their son moved through, and enjoyed scoutin' enough to have some "ownership" and stay on. Those folks are often a real gift to the program, because they provide stability and continuity, just as new members are a gift to the program because they provide energy and change.

 

All things in balance, eh? It is properly the role of the old guard to slow things down a bit, help da new folks be alert to traps, and help 'em handle hard stuff. That can come across as negative, but often it's just grizzled experience. I reckon plenty of da old guard here come across as BSA-negative sometimes, just from da school of hard knocks, though we all bleed khaki. Just as new folks come across as naive and a bit shallow in their program knowledge to the old guard or perhaps less than fully committed to good scoutin'.

 

What I'd guess is goin' on is that the old guard is a bit cliquish, and so are the new folks. People tend to hang out with folks they know and are comfortable with, eh? That's just natural, unless yeh have a few really social "bridge" people.

 

So rather than go off to have a fight, my recommendation to yeh is that yeh go off to have a party. Plan some social events just for adult troop members, and include some of those goofy games that get people to mingle and have fun across the clique lines. Maybe a summer barbeque where the adults gather and the kids run around in the park, or an evening out. Whatever works for your group so that folks get to know and understand and trust each other.... and most especially, to appreciate each other's perspectives. Spend time listening to and appreciating their war stories and battle scars so yeh know where they're comin' from; ask after their kids and what their kids got out of scoutin' to understand why they care enough to stay. Do that, and they might start listenin' to your ideas and enthusiasms and hopes for your kids.

 

To make a unit run well, yeh need both old wisdom folks and new worker folks, eh? But they both need to work at da Scout Law and treat each other with Loyalty, Helpfulness, Courtesy, and Kindness. Yah, yah, I know, that's never easy. It's always someone's fault, she can be soooo difficult, yada yada. But I reckon if we ask and expect the lads to work hard on livin' up to the law, we adults should put our time in, too.

 

My bet is that if yeh treat each other as friends, the old guard will move on, because they trust that "their" program is in good hands. And as an added bonus, they'll be there for yeh when yeh have a problem, or need a campership funded, or just need some perspective when you become da "old guard" and the new folks just don't get it.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[ScoutBox 11]

Beavah, the problem isn't the old guard with experience here. It's the old guard anti-American here. They are trying to maintain control. I was asked to run for SM over a year ago. When I did, the old guard heard about it, and found someone who didn't even show up to meetings or outings to serve. Now we have an American as SM, and the CC is making sure to keep him from being able to make a move. She is really anti-BSA. Before I came along and pushed for proper Boy lead, the boys did nothing. Always adults out front. Now the boys are taking the lead. I was at the CoH at another Unit last night, I'm the local ADC, and saw how they were doing things. In fact I spoke to a couple of families that live very close to our Troop but they prefer to drive the extra 30 mins. to go to another Troop because of the situation here. First, not BSA enough and second too much adult involvement. So as a parent of a boy in the troop I see this. as an ASM I see this, and as a ADC i see this. This isn't working. And speaking of parties. She's throwing a party for the past SM.. but not allowing the ASMs to attend. Because it will be at the Meeting???

[Beavah 205]

Yah, there's always some excuse for not followin' the Scout Law. There's always a litany of "history" of real or pretended slights and grievances. Doesn't matter if you're 3 or 43, eh? Sounds the same.

 

Yah, of course she's anti-American because she happens to be British. Might even be true, eh? Most of worldwide scouting thinks BSA folks are obnoxious, and even Baden-Powell had to hold his nose when dealin' with the BSA's corporate scouting model. The movement really is very different in other lands. In some ways worse. In many ways, better. Mostly just different.

 

Yah, of course yeh could find families that chose not to join your troop. There's not a troop around where yeh can't find some families who chose not to join and went to another troop farther away. Not enough uniforming. Too much uniforming. Not enough youth leadership. Too much youth leadership. Not enough advancement. Too much advancement. Didn't like young leaders. Didn't like old leaders. Not enough parent involvement. Too much parent involvement. Yeh see as many parents pull their boys out of fine programs as yeh see boys cling to 'em.

 

I can't speak to your circumstances, eh? I'm off in cyberspace. All I can try to do is offer what limited feedback your words suggest. Complainin' about party invitations? Really? Da Scout Law isn't worth a darn thing if yeh only live it when dealing with pleasant people you agree with. It has value only when we struggle to live up to it when it's hard. Like when we're dealin' with people who we find unpleasant and disagreeable, but who held together our troop for years before we got there.

 

You know as an ADC what your "fight" options are, eh? Yeh go to the COR and IH and make a case for removing the CC who has run their organization's program for many years, over the objection of the old SM who did the same. Maybe yeh convince 'em, maybe yeh don't. Occasionally that's even the right thing to do. But as an ADC yeh know that the real role and talent in da Commissioner Corps is to act with more kindness, grace, and finesse. You've only done your job right if she leaves her role as CC being still a strong supporter and advocate for da troop.

 

Beavah

 

 

[ScoutBox 11]

Good point all around Beavah, as an ADC I am staying at a distance. The SM wants to fight this, then he needs to make it his fight. I have been trying to calm him down for two weeks now. He's up and down. I'm trying to support the units here, and I take that role serious. Not the fighting. But it's hard to sit back and watch. But I'm a watching. The CoR knows the problem, so that'0s all can be asked I guess. The Troop is going int eh right direction compared to a year ago. And I suspect that in another year it will have changed again. I'm here for the long haul. many like the CC isn't. She's only here until her boys decide they want out, and they are heading int hat direction. Another problem is she's wanting to start a Crew. I'm in favor of this, but not in favor of having to go behind them, and clean up the mess. And they make a real mess. That's why the Troop was in such a bad situation. There was threat a couple of years ago that if they didn't start running it correctly then they would loose their charter. And that came from Council. I don't want to see that, but several up top have suggested that it would be best. I think that that would be a waste.

 

Thanks for your fine advise Beavah..

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Scoutbox, when you say they (apparently the CC and the former troop leaders she listens to) are "all English," you mean as in British? And you are the ASM of a BSA troop? And the "old guard" in that troop are "anti-American"? Just out of curiosity, where (generally, not specifically) are you? I know there are some BSA troops in other countries, but I assume the people who join those are Americans overseas and that the "indigenous population" join their own Scouting organization. Or are you somewhere in the U.S. that is somehow dominated by British people? This really has nothing to do with the role of a CC, you just got me curious.

 

On a more relevant point, Moosetracker says:

 

The CC holds no power on their own, their power comes from the group vote of the committee.

 

Technically I don't think that's correct. The authority (a word I prefer to "power") of the CC comes from the COR -- as does the authority of all the other leaders in the troop. As has been discussed in this forum many times, some troop committees operate by voting, some operate by "consensus", some a combination of the two, and in some the decisions are made by the CC. The BSA literature on the subject does not say there should be voting, and it doesn't say there shouldn't. It's up to the unit.

[moosetracker 132]

Oh, if the COR gives the CC (or anyone else in the unit) marching orders marching, then those will trump the committee.I guess a COR can say in our units we don't take a committee vote, the CC is King/Queen, but that would be a very rare exception to how troops are run.

 

 

A CC can not make up policy and rules for the unit, all by themselves. (unless appointed King/Queen)

 

They either have to follow the requirements of the IH/COR or of the committee by vote. Then they have the power to carry out these orders and make sure there is follow through.

[ScoutBox 11]

I'm in Europe.

 

And I think that the other committee members stay out of any real decision making..

[Beavah 205]

Yah, context is everything, eh? Most BSA units in Europe are on military bases, and often those bases have a NATO component. Most European nations don't have a single scout association, they have several different ones, and I can see Brits on a base in, say, France opting to join a BSA unit rather than one of da French scout groups. Who would want to join the French

 

Also the BSA units overseas are a bit remote from contact with other BSA units, so they can "drift" a bit more. Add to that the transfer from military sponsorship and yeh get some delicate stuff.

 

Best to tread softly, move gently. It's a game with a mission. Keep it lighthearted like a game, and don't compromise the mission by gettin' into useless minor skirmishes.

 

Beavah