Eagledad Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 >>In our troop, the PLC in the past has had little to do with the COH. The preveous scoutmasters have done this. This goes back to the question, to what degree is the boy let troop boy led? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Why shouldn't the Scouts be involved - and not just involved - run - the COH? It's their Troop after all. It's their time to show off for their parents. Calico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think this is something the boys can and should do, with active support from the SM and Advancement chair if necessary. I have noticed that on the rare occasions when our troop gives this responsibility to the boys, or even just part of it to them, that the boys do a better job of it than the adults. We have a couple of adults who drone on forever up there, talking over the boys to the other adults, as if it were all about them. Yawn. One of the other things I've noticed is that the people in our troop who do not want to hand over this responsibility (because it is too much coordination, they say, for boys to handle) are the same ones who block "boy led" in other areas too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 One of the things I did as advancement chair was to have the SPL hand out awards at the COH's. Traditionally the SM and CC had always done this. No one said anything but the first CC I served under seemed a bit taken back because she didn't have a forum to talk from. Now, the SPL not only hands out the awards but is as much involved in the program as the SM is, actually more so. The only time this changes is when we have a candidate involved with the Communications MB. They boys are much more ready to taken on structured ceremonies like a COH than other aspects of the operation of the troop. That's the easy stuff. The hard stuff is asking them, OK what do you to do for a high adventure trip next summer and you get the, "I dunno, or Let's go to Australia" ideas. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA_Scouter Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 We've made it so that the adults do not run the COH in our troop. The SPL and PLC share duties and we are called upon to speak when our spot comes up in the program. We certainly help them plan it out, but I really like to leave it up to them as much as possible. This is so perfect an opportunity for the scouts to show what they are made of to their parents! ( Yo, Calico! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk9750 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 In our Troop, if the Scout planning the Coh (regular, not Eagle) doesn't remember to request that the SM or another adult prepare some remarks, it is entirely likely you would not hear one word from an adult through the entire hour and a half. Most often our CoHs include a few words from the SM, but that is it. The uniformed adults do sit in the front, and it isn't all that uncommon for the SM to lean over to the em cee and remind him to do this or recognize someone for something, but for the most part, the adults are mum. For Eagle CoHs, the planning is done by the family and the SM together and equally. The family (actually the Eagle) chooses the em cee, and the biggest role the SM has in planning the CoH is he takes the responsiblity to make sure everything is coming together properly. I believe someone here once said that BP's vision was that an adult not do anything that boys can do for themselves. I'd like to think that this meant without harm. Ask a boy to plan and execute a CoH, what's the worst that can happen? Nothing that can't be fixed. Let an adult plan and execute it, what's the harm? Emmense, INVHO. Great weekend, all! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 >>This goes back to the question, to what degree is the boy let troop boy led? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allangr1024 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 In a previous troop, the boys had the responsibility of planning and running the COH. The night my youngest son was to recieve his first rank, tenderfoot, I watched him across the room as the boys on the stage started calling out the names of the rank recipients. They went through the tenderfoot badges, without calling my son up. They went throught the second class badges. Then the first class, then the upper ranks. They handed out all of the merit badges. Then they called for the closing and and SM minute. As all this went on I saw my sons face go from ready to questioning, to panic, to despair. When he came to me afterwords he was ready to start sobbing, and possibly ready to never return. I went to the CC and asked what happened. It appears that his tenderfoot badge was still on a table on the stage, overlooked, not picked up, not noticed by the boys on stage. We stayed until my son got Star. That troop did stuff like that a lot. The attitude was always, "oops, sorry about that, no harm done." But harm did get done, and now my son is out and is not interested in coming back to scouting. He is finding his needs better met by the church youth group. I have taken the SM position at another smaller troop, and wish he would follow, but he is done. I think about that as I do stuff for my current troop. I do not want to see that disappointed look again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgoodwin Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I'm an ASM in one of those troops where the adults run everything, all the while claiming that it is "boy-led". Of course, the adults run the COHs. As MB counselor for Communications, it is obvious to me that BSA thinks boys can and should run COHs. Communications MB requirement #8 requires a boy to develop a written plan for a troop COH (or troop campfire), get it approved by the PLC, then act as MC for the COH (or campfire). When I mention this requirement to our adults, I get a blank stare in return; to them, having the boys do the monthly campfire is enough. The adults have "always" done the COHs (troop is over 30 years old), and maybe it will always be that way. Well, except when they want to make an exception. Last year, a Life Scout, the son of a very important member of the troop, was about to turn 18. He lacked his Comm MB, and the next troop campout would be too late -- so the adults handed this boy a script for the COH, he read it, his MBC approved his Communications MB, and now the boy is an Eagle Scout. Don't think this "cutting of corners" and downright favoritism wasn't noticed by the younger guys. "Eagle" Scout hasn't been back since his ECOH. Anyway, I digress -- yes, boys can and should plan and conduct the COH. "Never do a job a boy can do" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I respectfully disagree with the previous posts. The SM Handbook is pretty clear about who chairs the COH - either the Troop CC or Advancement Chair. SM Handbook, pg. 126. IMHO, the COH should be FOR the boys, conducted BY the adults - with help from the boys. We have both the CC and Adv. Chair plan and MC the ceremony. The boys conduct the opening ceremony and the candle lighting for the Oath and Law. The CC and SM award rank awards, and the Merit Badge counselors award MBs, when possible. The counselor can talk about what the boy(s) did to earn the badge and maybe share something special about the process. This may inspire other boys to try to earn that badge. For rank awards, the SM can talk about how the Scout has grown, share some memorable moments about the Scout from campouts or other events, and he challenges the Scout to earn the next rank. I believe Kudu recommends this as well, as can be seen at http://www.inquiry.net/advancement/ceremonies/candlelight.htm I very much believe in a boy-run Scout Troop, but there are some things that should be done by the adults. This is one of them. Again, I feel these should be events FOR the boys - it is a time for the adults to recognize and honor them. Can someone point to a source (BS Handbook, SPL Handbook, PL Handbook) where the Scouts are given instruction on how to run a COH? Where they are instructed that COHs are their responsibility? If so, please share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila calva Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 BrentAllen: Your point is well-taken. From the Communications Merit Badge Book: 2007 Printing, page 4. 8. Plan a troop court of honor or campfire program. Have the patrol leaders council approve it, then write the script and prepare the program. Serve as master of ceremonies. This requirement puts a lot of responsibility for the court of honor into the hands of a Scout working on the Communications merit badge. It also puts a lot of responsibility on the PLC. This may have been interpreted, over time, to mean that the Scout working on the Communications merit badge should actually present the advancements and merit badges. Perhaps this merit badge requirement should be rewritten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanescouter Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 My wacky 2 cents is simple ... The more the boys do themselves the better ... in fact they should be doing slightly more then they are comfortable with so they have the chance to fall down and pick themselves back up... they will grow a lot from that fall ... however they need that friendly hand to guide and advice them - but also to make sure they get back up and keep on going ... So yes the scouts should be running the COH! Scott Robertson http://insanescouter.org Helping leaders one resource at a time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I guess I do it a little different. I was once the advance ASM for an adult led program. SM ran the show. The boys were occasionally asked to light candles or read something to have some scout participation. However, now that I'm SM of a different troop, it is patrol-method, boy-led at every opportunty I can think of. The PL's run the COH. They make the presentation to the boys of their patrol that are receiving recognition. There is no oversight on the part of the boys forgetting anyone because each PL has worked hard at assisting the boy with his requirements. If a PL cannot make the COH, the APL does the presentation. As a master of ceremony, the SPL introduces and coordinates the flow of the COH for the PL's to invite them up at their proper time and/or make comments to the parents about the troop as a whole. All comments to the parents about the boy and his patrol are made by the PL. The PL's are independent enough to provide their part of the COH to honor their members in the way they wish to do so. The Advancement ASM and SM provide the logistics of records with the council, award purchases, get proper signatures on the cards, bundle up the awards by patrol,etc. in support of each PL. This process involves all the leadership of the troop playing their own little part which does not require a big coordinating effort by anyone. While this process may not be "proper" according to BSA literature, there seems to me to be too much emphasis on the adults in BSA literature when the core value being promoted is boy-led, patrol-method to scouting. I find that the image being projected by patrol-method process does in fact show the efforts of the boys over the limelight over the adults and "how well they have progressed the boys" since the last COH. The boy-led, patrol-method approach gives the impression that the boys, working as a team, have progressed as a whole and no one else stands up and takes the limelight during it's public recognition program. Each photo op for the evening should have the boy and his PL making the presentation with the parents at hand to witness. This encapsulates the whole ideal of boy-led, patrol-method. The boy advances, recognized by his PL who has walked/worked with him every step of the way to assist him, and his parents, the boy's #1 supporters. And what part did the SPL and SM play in that? Not much if my understanding of boy-led, patrol-method is correct and being used. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrentAllen Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 "And what part did the SPL and SM play in that?" Beyond First Class, rank advancement requires the earning of Merit Badges and PORs. Hopefully the boys aren't signing off on MB requirements, so adults play a large part in advancement after FC. For PORs, the SM or ASMs should be conducting Troop-level Leader training. For each rank, a SM Conference and BOR is required, involving the SM and other adults. Service Projects for advancement require SM approval. So, nearly every requirement for advancement from Star through Eagle requires adult involvement. The Patrol Method is one of 8 methods. Advancement, Adult Association, Personal Growth, Leadership Development all require adult leadership and involvement. Many ways to skin a cat, as they say. The unanimous opinion of my mentors is COHs are ceremonies for the boys, conducted by the adults, as described by the BSA. If a troop has the boys run their COHs and everyone is happy, I don't see that as a problem. Saying the SM and other adults don't play a role in the success and advancement of a Scout is a bit much, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Blessings All >>That troop did stuff like that a lot. The attitude was always, "oops, sorry about that, no harm done." But harm did get done, and now my son is out and is not interested in coming back to scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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