out of control parent

[jhubb]

I'm new to this forum and i couldnt find any thig close while searching so I will start a new one. Frist of all I'm ASM of my sons troop, we just came up in March from cubs, so I'm pretty new at the ASM thing to.

Now for the issue.Last month there was an incendent between two of the scouts on and outing, that was handeled on the scene ,end of story right? NO!That sunday e-mail flew aroun some, parents appolgised,SM thought everything was done.

The next meeting parent 1 confronted parent 2 in a loud and verbal abusive way outside the meeting building. Parent 1 decied that they and there son were leaving the troop( not a outcome I would ever want)

The next week we met with parent 2, a charter rep, the SM, Unit Commissioner, and myself. We felt that the behavior at the meeting needed to be addressed.

Unforunatly, parent 2 felt ganged up on and annouced that they and there scouts would be leaving the troop also.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas on how to this should have been handled differently. We lost 3 scouts from 1 patrol and I Hope to never see this kind of thing come up again.

thanks for the input.

Jhubb

[OldGreyEagle]

We are going to need some sort of backstory, what happened between scout 1 and 2 that created the issue, what did the on site adults do and how was the face to face with parent 2 held?

[raisinemright]

It sounds like they were looking for an excuse to leave. We had a similar situation in our Pack. At a leaders meeting, we were discussing taking a trip to a WWII submarine for an overnighter. One of the rules is that an adult must stay on guard duty all night. Someone joked that the reason is to keep the boys from peeing over the side. We all laughed and went on with our meeting. Our Pack Secretary apparently got highly offended at that and had it out a few days later with our CM, and they left the pack. All we could figure is that they had been looking for an excuse and blew that minor comment way out of proportion.

 

I would make one more attempt...privately and then if they insist on going I'd wish them well.

[Beavah]

Hiya jhubb. Welcome to da forums, eh?

 

One of the things as an adult leader that yeh just have to shrug off sometimes is parent behavior. It's not somethin' that you can control most of the time. So don't beat yourself up too much.

 

You don't give us much of the reasons behind the disputes, but here's my take on it.

 

First: Are you sure the troop adults responded appropriately and firmly to the original kid behavior? And ten are you sure that the response was communicated well to all those parents? Like, for example, after "resolving the issue" at the campout, did the SM talk to the parents when they were picking up their kids, or call them that evening (before they got junior's tale)?

 

Usually, parents will only "get into it" if they feel that the troop adults are not firmly in charge and on top of it. Nobody likes surprises, and every kid is goin' to tell "his" version.

 

Second: Never try to resolve serious stuff by email. The moment "email started flying around" the SM should have called the parties to set up a personal meeting with each of 'em... probably separately. Yeh can't pour water on a fire electronically.

 

Third When yeh have to have a "sit down" with an adult about behavior, the first time it should be done by the troop leader who the adult gets along with best, and it should be a friendly thing on neutral ground. People get hot-headed sometimes. Havin' a friend say privately "Hey, George, that was a bit out of hand, don't you think?" gives him a chance to re-think things and save face. If he does, you've won a friend back.

 

Da second time, it should be a couple of people, again in a respectful way, but the people should be both a "friendly scouter" and "someone official" like a CC or UC or COR. This is the "Hey, George, I know you were upset again, but that's twice now and it's really gettin' out of hand. We like your kid, and we like you as a volunteer, but it really can't happen again."

 

Da third time, it should be a group like you suggest - all official. SM, CC, COR. Not more than 3 though. In some units it might be a committee subgroup, but it shouldn't be fellow parents. This one should be held on your turf. It's the "This is unacceptable and here's the consequences" bit. At that point, yeh know that chances are you're going to lose the adult and the scout. Consequences are goin' to be a suspension of the parent for a time, and perhaps a written behavioral agreement after that.

 

For any of these meetings, I'd set em up for 3-7 days down the road. Don't let it be an "ambush". Leave some time for folks to cool down a bit before yeh get together.

 

Close as I can tell, yeh jumped right to step #3 and skipped #1 and #2. That can be just fine, if the behavior was bad enough and you really felt the guy should be gone. But if yeh didn't, you jumped things up to give that impression.

 

Now at this point, yeh probably can go back to Parent 1 and say "we had a serious meeting with Parent 2 about the behavior and they decided to withdraw from the troop. We apologize for what you had to go through, hope that our response was appropriate. Would you consider coming back?"

 

Parent #2 is a goner, though. Help 'em find a new unit to continue their scouting in.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

Absent the backstory, Beavah describes good process!

 

Yes, the boys are the program, but that does not relieve the Scoutmaster in particular of responsibility for cross-communication! If the SM was not on the trip, the role passes to the leader in charge for the weekend.

 

You have to communicate, you have to obtain the feedback (it's a gift!), and you have to process the feedback into information going forward... and then you repeat the process.

[jhubb]

Ok more info

scout 1 hit scout 2 with a plastic tool

no blood,no headache, no request for any first aid.

both scouts are First Class

the on site leader (scout 1s parent) told him to "knock it off and apologies"

SM was working with the other boys in a different area(this was a service project)and didnt know about it till that evening when the e-mails started.

the face to face was held at our charter org. church as an organized meeting

 

Beavah,

Parent 2 was a commity member(fundraising chair)

some of the e-mails that want flying went to our district, the charter, and council. The meeting was sugested by a few district members.

 

[mlg0171]

Jhubb, I'm confused. If it was Parent #1 who was loud and abusive, why was Parent #2's behavior addressed at a sit-down?

 

Beavah, is it just me or did you get tripped up on that too? I think you've got the troop apologizing to the abuser.

[jhubb]

sorry about that. in keeping out the names i confused myself.

Parent 2 had the bad behavior

parent 1 had the son with the tool

[eolesen]

Sheesh... Boys whack each other all the time with sticks and stuff. It doesn't make it right, but if that was really the extent of the incident, the parents over-reacted, and are the ones who need to grow up...

[Slouchhat]

That's probably exactly what the parents need to be told.

 

best regards,

Volker

[Beavah]

Yah, probably what happened is that junior #2 came home and said "Junior #1 hit me with a knife" (leavin' out that it was plastic and no damage was done).

 

Parent #2 then posted a question to an on-line forum saying "My son was attacked by a kid with a knife on a campout and the Scoutmaster didn't even inform me and the other boy wasn't punished at all."

 

Then a bunch of people on da forum replied "The Scoutmaster is an idiot, this is clearly a youth protection issue, the first boy's parent had no business deciding what the punishment was on his own, you need to notify the district and council immediately and tell the other parent to stay away from your son and tell the CO to fire the Scoutmaster and if they don't listen you should immediately leave that troop because they're incompetent."

 

And so he did.

 

[Yah, sorry, I couldn't resist, eh ? All said with tongue mostly in cheek. ]

 

Beavah

 

[evmori]

Sorry to say but you are probably better off without the parents who left! Too bad the boys are the ones that really suffer. And what's worse is the parents never seem to understand this.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Joni4TA]

It sounds to me like typical boy behavior, which was curtailed, got relayed to one of the parents and turned into "my son isn't as mean as your son" and parents got their knickers in a wad and overreacted!

 

Simple miscommunication and apparently some adults who couldn't be calm enough to get to the truth of the story without freaking out first.

 

Unless there is some history of physical stuff going on between Scout 1 and Scout 2, and Scout 1's parent thinking his/her child is never to blame while always blaming Scout 2 for stuff that happens between them, I don't see how anyone outside those involved could have avoided this situation.

 

The SM should have been informed of the situation before the end of the campout though - so he wasn't blindsided. And probably both Scout 1 and Scout 2, along with both their parents, might have been informed by a non-involved, witnessing adult at pick-up time, after the campout as well. That's the only thing I can think of that might have changed the outcome slightly? Maybe then the emails wouldn't have started flying? But there's no way to know for sure - you can never know how someone is going to react to something.

[Vicki]

jhubb indicated that Parent 1 told Scout 1 to "knock it off and apologize." Doesn't sound like a parent who coddles the kid to me, assuming Parent 1 belongs to Scout 1. But, jhubb, on the internet you really have to go out of your way to be clear on this stuff - think of it as a roaring campfire with too many people talking way too loud:

[John-in-KC]

Going forward...

 

Kids have dumb attacks.

 

Parents need to be informed, by a Scouter who was on the outing, that the kids had dumb attacks.

 

This should happen with parents and kids together at the end of the outing, so everyone has a straight story.

 

It's all about communication and discretion.