Vocational Counciling?

[Its Me]

 

I have a Scout Masters Hand Book from 1932. In Chapter XI of this book it explains that vocational counciling is an essential responsibility of the Scout Master.

 

"The Scout Master is urged to keep notes on his vocational conferences with the scout."

 

"The Scout Master should mobilize the best men in his community to act as vocational advisors to the boys"

 

The 1932 book goes on for several pages on the proper approach the Scout Master is to use to draw out the boys interests and aide the scout in deciding his vocational opportunities. This book ties in how the Merit Badge system can be used to assist the boy in chosing his vocation.

 

The current Scout Master Handbook does not list the word vocation in the index. Nor can one find career, job or employment in the index. A review of the current handbook has no reference to the Scout Master assiting the scout in vocational selection.

 

Why would vocational guidance no longer be a Scout Master obligation?

Would not this be an essential element in a boys-to-men program?

Should it be part of the Scout Progarm?

 

 

 

[local1400]

Its Me- I will have to re-read my 1958 (and favorite version) SM handbook and see what it says. Maybe it is no longer applicable because kids spend more time in school and at non-Scouting activities these-a-days then 75 years ago. I'm curious what vocational leanings were discussed during the great depression (as opposed to the current enormous depression) when so few jobs were available?

[Gonzo1]

Local,

For the real story on the economy, visit the folks who maintin the correct information, not Katie Coric, the other network talking head, David Letterman and Jay Leno.

 

The Conference board has the data.

Visit

http://www.conference-board.org/economics/bci/pressRelease_output.cfm?cid=1

 

No offense friend,

G

 

The real reason may be that Green Bar bill has passed away and some manuals are now written by comittee, some kids don't have an interest in vocations, vocational schools seem to be disappearing too, maybe kids play too much gameboy.

 

 

[Lisabob]

I think the expectations about young men attending college are much different now than they were in 1932. Also, mobility patterns were much different and people weren't nearly as likely to pick up and move across country as they are today. Back then most boys probably expected to join the military or the work force straight out of high school (if they got that far) and so some immediate community-based vocational counseling for scout-aged boys made a lot of sense.

 

I think boys could still use guidance of course, but maybe the scoutmaster is no longer in as good a position to provide it, given that boys are probably in their second or third year of college before they figure out what they actually want to do (if then), and they could be halfway across the country from their friendly SM. And colleges generally do provide a lot of career guidance too.

[Stosh]

Excuse me? How many of the merit badges end up with the final requirement talking about different careers? This process has been a part of Scouting from the beginning and hasn't changed, only our attitudes have.

 

Scouts talk to me all the time about their future plans beyond HS. College, work, military, etc. have all been discussed. It's important for the boys to have adults other than their parents who have a genuine interest in the lives of these boys.

 

Supporting leadership means that there has been an investment in the lives of these scouts and their future success is dependent upon how well we as scout leaders have provided them the tools of leadership, regardless of the future choices they may make.

 

Maybe our silence on the issue means we as scouters aren't interested in the future of our scouts?

 

Some of those old handbooks have some real treasures still written on those yellowed pages.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

Hey Stosh, I completely agree. It's just that in terms of serious vocational counseling (not only a willing and friendly adult to talk with about general career paths and ideas, but someone who really knows the field and what it takes to get into it), SMs today are probably less able to offer that sort of specific counseling than they would have been in the 1930s when the types of jobs and types of educations, and community networks people needed and sought out were rather different.

 

In that regard, the MBs are still wonderful, you're right - and it is also (in my view) a real dis-service when troops feel they can or should "cover" as many MBs as possible "in house" rather than find true experts or practitioners for the boys to learn from. The differences between what a kid learns about, say, environmental science from Joe Scout's dad who happens to be willing to teach it and someone who has a degree in E.S. and works in the field for a living, is likely to be huge. Of course sometimes that's not possible, but more often I think we (collectively) take the easy way out and don't seek to build a great MBC corp.

[Its Me]

The old book really didn't mention military. It decribed three vocations, Mechanaical Engineering, Law and the Farm industry. These were example outlines for the scout master to understand and apply as he sees fit to other vocations. Fairly lofty goals for 1935. When the book references vocation it is the generic sense and should not be considered merely as labor or technical trade training.

 

Clearly the merit badge system is a vocational tool. Why else would there be a Denistry Merit badge? Its not even trail denistry.

 

Since I have a daughter entering high school and a son entering middle school one looks for opportunities to council his childern on career selection. I did what any good scouter does and looked to "The Handbook". However, I found a disconnection between the old and new books.

 

I will answer my own questions:

 

-Why would vocational guidance no longer be a Scout Master obligation?

I don't know.

 

-Would not this be an essential element in a boys-to-men program?

Absolutely, I cann't think of a better place where adult leadership can really draw out the interest of the boy. The ready made structure of the merit badge system, the merit badge councelors and long term exposure the boy has with adult guidence.

 

 

-Should it be part of the Scout Progarm?

Yes, And I like the structured approach of the old book. It just addresses the issue well, without going overboard.

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

[eagle90]

In today's much more technical world than in 1932, I, for one, do not have the skills or knowledge to be a vocational counselor. In one of the last Eagle SM conferences I did, the candidate told me he wanted to study bio-medical physics in college. My reply was "OooooKaaay!". I don't have a clue what that is! Today schools are doing a much better job of this than in years past. My neice is in grad school for school counseling and her course work is unbelieveably tough. I'd say show a general interest, but leave the actual counseling to the professionals!

 

Dale

[John-in-KC]

We need to look at the culture in 1932.

 

Many young men didn't go to college. The HS Diploma was "the essential paper" to a good working life.

 

Many young men didn't complete High School. 8th Grade completion was seen as a waypoint for a laborer's life.

 

Counseling young men about vocational options EARLY... and seriously ... was essential.

 

Stosh is right, though: These days, introducing young people to vocations is part of the merit badge process, which in turn crosses the Advancement and Adult Association methods.

[Stosh]

Sure there are trained "professionals" out there who have the responsibility to counsel in this area. However, one-on-one with a trusted advisor is often times more important.

 

My "guidance counselor" in high school said I should apply at the local foundry after high school in order to get a good job, etc.

 

Well, I didn't take her advice, and now hold AA, BS, and MS degrees and work for a multi-billion dollar international company.

 

Don't underestimate your ability to help these kids just because you're just a scoutmaster.

 

My Eagles and others are still in contact, I talk with them when I see them and the first thing I ask them is, "What cha been up to?" That's vocational counseling that is often more helpful than what a professional often gives.

[EagleInKY]

On our campout this weekend I found myself talking with some of the older scouts about where they might go to college, what majors they were interested in, etc. It's not the first time we've had the conversations. I find myself having it with many of the boys that are of high school age. So, while not spelled out per se, I still see it happening in my normal interactions with these young men.

[Stosh]

Exactly!

[mtm25653]

Vocational counselling is just another part of adult association. My older sons both asked scout leaders to write college recommendations. One ASM encouraged my middle son to apply to a 6-week summer academic program, for which he was accepted. That same son chose his college double-major after discussions with another ASM on a 2 week trip on the Appalachian Trail. My youngest is considering a career after the SM and an ASM suggested that he would be good at it.

 

Our troop does a number of merit badges as a group - not the ideal based on opinions on this board, but it does give boys ideas/encouragement on careers - everything from Law (with mock trial in the county courthouse and visit to the local jail) to plumbing (with soldered "sculpture"). ASM engineer (who earned Eagle in the troop a few years ago) taught Electronics to several older boys last year (during the meetings when the troop was doing things they had done multiple times) - none are planning on majoring in Engineering, but they have a much better understanding of what it entails.

 

The leaders of the troop (myself included) regularly ask the older boys what their plans are - where they are applying to college, what they are thinking of majoring in, what they'd like to do. I know my boys have benefited by having a lot of adults interested and caring about their plans for their future.