What standard for completing requirements do you use?

[Armymutt]

We're trying to correct what I, and the acting SM, perceive as failures of previous adult and youth leaders in our troop, and the troops from which we have received Scouts.  We have a number of Scouts in the Star, Life, and Eagle ranks who can't do basic Scoutcraft.  I'm of the mindset that a Scout should be competent at the skills of the previous rank, and an expert at the skills of the ranks below that.  For example, I expect a First Class Scout to have no problem tying a square knot, two half hitches, or a taught line hitch. 

The Guide to Advancement says this:  It is important to remember that in the end, badges recognize that Scouts have gone through experiences of learning things they did not previously know. Through increased confidence, Scouts discover or realize they are able to learn a variety of skills and disciplines. Advancement is thus about what Scouts are now able to learn and to do, and how they have grown. Retention of skills and knowledge is then developed later by using what has been learned through the natural course of unit programming; for example, instructing others and using skills in games and on outings.

When the requirement says, "Show first aid for the following:", does it mean using the book or from memory?  I lean more toward memory with prompting from the examiner.  That's what we did this weekend.  I have a feeling other leaders have taken a more Cub Scout view of things and if the Scout did it in the class while mimicking the instructor, that was good enough.  Consequently, unless the unit actually follows the last sentence of the relevant portion of the guide, the Scout never develops the skill.  

[mrjohns2]

4 hours ago, Armymutt said:

When the requirement says, "Show first aid for the following:", does it mean using the book or from memory? 

I think it has to all be from memory. If a Scout wants to work with me on a skill, they are more than welcome to use the book. We learn together, we use the book as a guide and aid. That doesn't count for a sign off, though. Come back the next day, demonstrate the skill without an aid, notes, etc, then I will sign it off. 

This is why I find "merit badge days" so hard to staff. It is hard to do that without requiring pre-reqs that are actually done. 

Edited 19 hours ago by mrjohns2

[Tron]

So when you read the GTA, the Troop Leader Guides, etc ... the reality of the program is that getting something checked off for rank requirement requires only ever having done it successfully once. Now what separates a rank mill from a real scout troop is what happens afterwards. A good scout troop has a regular calendar and rotates through scoutcraft regularly which provides two things: First it allows scouts to revisit that skill and practice. Secondly it provides an enablement opportunity for those senior scouts to teach and thus master their scoutcraft through having to know the task well enough to explain it and  teach it. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 hour ago, Tron said:

So when you read the GTA, the Troop Leader Guides, etc ... the reality of the program is that getting something checked off for rank requirement requires only ever having done it successfully once. Now what separates a rank mill from a real scout troop is what happens afterwards. A good scout troop has a regular calendar and rotates through scoutcraft regularly which provides two things: First it allows scouts to revisit that skill and practice. Secondly it provides an enablement opportunity for those senior scouts to teach and thus master their scoutcraft through having to know the task well enough to explain it and  teach it. 

Agree... but making this a reality is quite difficult, as it is the Scouts (PLC) who choose their activities and calendar. 

If it was up to me (I would be an excellent SPL 😜 ) then the schedule and activities would be radically different.

But, as I understand the program, I can only suggest and mentor, and step in (veto) only in cases of health and safety.

[Tron]

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Agree... but making this a reality is quite difficult, as it is the Scouts (PLC) who choose their activities and calendar. 

If it was up to me (I would be an excellent SPL 😜 ) then the schedule and activities would be radically different.

But, as I understand the program, I can only suggest and mentor, and step in (veto) only in cases of health and safety.

Scouts pick but they don't. This isn't the scouts get to do what they want program, this is the scouts get to lead and do things that interest them but they still have to run "the program". As adults we're the framework to make sure the program is being ran. Think of it like a Montessori school. We know that in any given 18 month period national wants us to provide a program that provides the opportunity for a scout to get from nothing to 1st class rank and star soon thereafter; so everything for scout through 1st class has to get covered at some point in any given 18 month period. Say you have a PLC that hates land navigation, sure they can push it off, maybe they love swimming and swim for one meeting every month, but sometime in that 18 month period the adults have the duty to force the PLC to accept the fact that they have to do land navigation, at least enough to teach the new crossovers so they can advance. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

38 minutes ago, Tron said:

force the PLC to accept the fact that they have to do land navigation

Hmmm... different philosophies, I guess.  If they do not schedule any events where map and compass or orienteering events, or aquatics, or whatever, are available for those who need them, as a Scoutmaster, I advise them of the need to provide those opportunities for advancement, but do not "force"  anything on the PLC, other than decisions which affect health and safety.

And, I am curious... what exactly do you mean by "force."  Do you dictate their schedule?