Is traveling in convoys allowed?

[InquisitiveScouter 1695]

5 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Transportation guidelines change over the years.  Language around travel has also changed, as has driver education.   Today's terms and laws focus on distance between cars, following to closely, tailgating, adding more following distance during inclement weather.    It did not make sense to keep using antique terms.   However, I'll entertain language if you all have it.  

There is also no longer language around carbon tetrachloride....has not been available in years.  

@RichardB, thanks!  IMO, we are in a good place with the driver policies we have now.  No need to revisit "convoy" or "caravan." 

Are you still seeing a trend of convoying being a causal/contributing factor in vehicle incidents?

I do have some recommendations on improving the Transportation checklist.  How do we plug into the apparatus to suggest those changes?

For example, "Windshield Wipers" are not on the checklist, and darn well should be 😜

Several other things should be considered for inclusion, particularly for trailers... happy to provide input.

Also, do you have insight into BSA incident rates while towing a trailer?

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-696(21)-SAFE-Transportation-Checklist-FPO3-5172021.pdf

[SSScout 1626]

Convoys,,,,,    Every driver MUST have the good directions.   I marched in the Purdue Band  1966-1970.  When we went to away games, it was a military operation. Ten or more busses, two or three trucks, a couple of private cars....  The student corps (I was a "supply sargent" , helped load and arrange stuff) listed, ordered,  spoke to the drivers,  and answered to the faculty staff.  No cells, some radios,  paper maps, memoes, lists of people and gear.  

Even a Troop of a half dozen cars/vans/ trailers,  35 people,   needs knowledge, organization, cooperation, understandings.  Convoys are useful, but not in today's traffic.  Funeral processions get SOME respect, but not much without police escort.

DO NOT expect Google speed estimates to match reality.   Be patient. Smile and wave.  A Scout is Courteous, Helpful,  Friendly and Cheerful, even in I-95 traffic on a friday afternoon......  

Cell numbers, PAPER DIRECTIONS and or maps,  stop and regroup spots along the way. Lunch stops with sufficient parking   spaces.  Traveling  in Scout Casual, Scout hats and matching tshirts gets lot's of smiles and even discounts or FREE LUNCH sometimes.  

AND encourage folks to check out their vehicle BEFORE the event. Tires pumped up, oil level okay, mufflers attached (!),  windshields washed (Scout service !) ,  seatbelts operational.... 

See you on the trail !

[InquisitiveScouter 1695]

4 minutes ago, SSScout said:

AND encourage folks to check out their vehicle BEFORE the event. Tires pumped up, oil level okay, mufflers attached (!),  windshields washed (Scout service !) ,  seatbelts operational.... 

Actually @SSScout, it is not communicated well, but BSA requires all drivers check their vehicles prior to departure:

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-696(21)-SAFE-Transportation-Checklist-FPO3-5172021.pdf

"Motor vehicles used to transport Scouts must complete Pre-Trip Transportation Inspection before travel for each driver and vehicle. This includes correcting all deficiencies."

btw, @RichardB, "Motor vehicles" don't complete checklists... people do.  Would recommend re-wording this statement on the form.

[SSScout 1626]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Motor vehicles used to transport Scouts must complete Pre-Trip Transportation Inspection before travel for each driver and vehicle. This includes correcting all deficiencies."

And don't forget the "occasional"  driver who will have no idea where their spare tire is when that cursed flat tire occurs....    

Hey, HERE'S an opportunity....   Automotive Merit Badge afternoon in the church parking lot.....

[rallybug 17]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:20 AM, SSScout said:

And don't forget the "occasional"  driver who will have no idea where their spare tire is when that cursed flat tire occurs....    

Hey, HERE'S an opportunity....   Automotive Merit Badge afternoon in the church parking lot.....

And that an extended full-size passenger van (Chevy Express, Ford E-Series) must be a 2005 or newer currently - although as both of those didn't have head restraints for the passengers, to my mind they don't make great transport vehicles anyway (Chevy and Ford didn't/don't care about passengers and whiplash...). The newer (well, maximum 10 years old now..) Transit, on the other hand, does have head restraints for every seat.

[SiouxRanger 498]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:50 AM, mrjohns2 said:

Where I have seen it “fail” is when you get on local roads with traffic lights. It can easily split up and cause people to either brake hard or “blow” a light. Not good stuff. 

That is the hard part. Never had that happen.  I had to anticipate light changes and a green light in the distance, well, I'd slow down to make sure we all had to stop.

I am not saying it was easy-it was not.  Very stressful.

Sometimes the light was so short that the whole convoy did not make it through and we'd pull onto the shoulder for the rest to catch up. I'd only do that if very low traffic, etc. If not, then I'd proceed at just at legal limit so folks could catch up.

[qwazse 4380]

Saw the driver ahead of you rush an intersection and get t-boned, and I never set convoy again. We arrange rendezvous points.
The scout riding shotgun navigates for me. (I have paper maps for the very purpose.) He also checks my texts while my car is rolling.

[InquisitiveScouter 1695]

8 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I'd proceed at just at legal limit so folks could catch up.

Which means they would have to exceed the legal limit?

[Jameson76 1507]

The best method we have found is rally points along the way.  We all depart at the same time and maybe meet at some designated break spot, then meet at the next logical point.

For our winter trip this past January departed the CO, met about an hour down the road (got outside the major city we live near), then another hour to our first trip stop.  We departed there a few hours later and the meetup was an hour down the road for the camping spot.

On heading home day met an hour down the road for a tour stop at a historic place, then an hour or so up the road and after we hit the main highway, stopped at a large center with a beaver as a mascot.  Then the 1.5 hours home to the CO.  

At the designated stops keep up with everyone, also we have a text group for trips and have our co-pilots handle the exchanges

If our camping spot is more remote, off the path, we meet as close to there as possible on the way in, then convoy the last few miles.

[skeptic 1029]

I am a bit confused that this is even still working.  The answer is simply NO.  The reasons have been explained in a variety of ways.  It can cause dangerous driver actions, and just because it is not an actual convoy, it is still NOT allowed.  Plan and if need have meeting spots to regroup.  Know where you are going if driving; do not expect to just "follow".  How often does it need to be said?

 

[SiouxRanger 498]

15 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Which means they would have to exceed the legal limit?

I misstated my practices.  If any vehicle fell behind for some reason, I slowed down until all caught up. Convoying as we practiced it was slower than a single vehicle driving at legal limits.  Slowing for others to catch up, however, caused me some concern, as I am not comfortable driving below the speed of other traffic.

5 hours ago, skeptic said:

How often does it need to be said?

More-a lot more.

For over 24 years, I've attended every troop meeting (less 3 or 4), every campout, troop activity, and summer camp (less 3 or 4), attended Roundtables, held District and Council level positions, been Chair of cub summer camps, cub weekend campouts,  and been heavily involved in monthly work days at the local camp, NCAP team member (and I read the entire binder of rules), Wood Badge, etc.

AND UNTIL MY FIRST POST on this topic, I NEVER HEARD of a prohibition on convoying to scouting events.

So, the first senior attorney partner I worked for, when some legal matter got into a "sticky wicket" would look at me and ask, "How did we get into this BOX?"

Truly, yes. Why?

And I ask that question on convoying.

"Why have I, so heavily involved in Scouting, not only with my kids working through the program, but also being a unit leader for Cubs and Scouts, District Chairperson and chair of other District camping events, Council Board Member, NCAP team member, member of Council subcommittees with a number of currently serving scoutmasters, and having spent dozens of lunches with the scoutmaster members of the camp work crew…having taken all the training National suggests/requires me to take…WHY have I not heard of the prohibition on convoying?"

So, I will canvass our troop leaders and ask if they have ever heard of such a prohibition and advise them that they are not to caravan.

Additionally, that they should make sure that each vehicle has a list of cell phone numbers of all the other vehicles headed to the event, so that if a problem arises they can stay in contact and get help.

Additionally, I think it prudent that all vehicles follow the same route.  So, if a vehicle breaks down, it is somewhere ahead, or behind, and easy to get to.  That a vehicle might be 20 miles off the route taken by other vehicles creates chaos.