Is a totin chip required for having a pocketknife on outings?

[MrJZhu]

New scout here - Is a totin chip required for having a pocketknife on outings acording to the BSA? If not, then what rules exsist on what knives are allowed? What is your troops policy?

[skeptic]

The actual cert and or patch, no.  But the skill it represents, yes.  

 

[InquisitiveScouter]

10 hours ago, MrJZhu said:

New scout here - Is a totin chip required for having a pocketknife on outings acording to the BSA? If not, then what rules exsist on what knives are allowed? What is your troops policy?

No.  This is up to your unit leaders, as they are responsible for your health and safety.  (This is their only established veto power 😜 )

Our policy is this:  You should bring your knife on all outings, as it is part of your Scout Essentials.

If you earned your Whittling Chip as a Cub Scout, you may use your pocketknife.  If you did not, then you must complete Scout rank requirement 5: "Tell what you need to know about using a pocketknife safely and responsibly." before using your knife.  (Usually done very quickly upon joining, even if they have Whittling Chip.) 

We expect Scouts to use their knives in order to learn how to use their knives 😜 

Which usually leads to Tenderfoot 4a:  Show first aid for the following: Simple cuts and scrapes (so we review that with them, too, early on)

If you do not use your knife responsibly, we take it until the end of the outing.  If you repeatedly use your knife in an irresponsible way, you may be held back from advancement.  If you compromise the safety of others, you might no longer be in the Troop. (case by case basis on all... circumstances matter...)

With ax and saw, the stakes are a little higher, so you must complete Tenderfoot 3d, "Demonstrate proper care, sharpening, and use of the knife, saw, and ax. Describe when each should be used." before use, unless you are part of a class...  (again, usually done very quickly upon joining)

Reviewed again for 2nd Class 2b: "Use a pocketknife, and a saw or axe if needed, to prepare tinder, kindling, and fuel wood for a cooking fire."

When working on any service projects requiring a pocketknife, see https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf  which requires Totin Chip (TC) for pocketknife use.

Oddly enough, if you needed to use a saw or ax on said service project, the document above does not specifically require TC (even though these are much more likely situations).

We have a good culture of safety here.  If you use these tools unwisely, you get corrected on it ASAP by fellow Scouts.  They watch each other diligently when using these tools.  Even after teaching TC, we have to correct and mold skills often, because they require practice and repetition to build proficiency.

Ask what your Troop policy is...

Edited March 7 by InquisitiveScouter

[qwazse]

The card is a tool for SPL’s to maintain discipline, if needed. In many troops, it’s not needed, so it might not be required.

If a scout is found to violate knife/axe safety, rather than temporarily robbing the scout of a tool, a PL or SPL may request to see the scout’s card, clip a corner from it, explain the safety violation that necessitates the clip, and assure the scout that you think he or she will do better next time. Once the scout presents a card with four corners cut (never happened in my lifetime), slice the card in half and invite him/her to retake a safety course with a JASM or instructor and earn a new card.

Obviously, if the scout doesn’t have his card with him, he needs to put his tool away and acquire he card.

The nice thing about this is that the scout is accountable to all the leaders in the camp. His PL doesn’t have to worry about watching every scout all the time. If he PLC agrees on the procedure, a scout who might “visit” a friend’s patrol just so he could violate safety without his PL catching him/her again can be mentored by the other PL without the two PL’s having to report on which scouts are playing loose with safety.

So, ask your PL what your troops policy is.

Edited March 7 by qwazse

[SSScout]

*sigh*..   It depends...

I taught Sharp Tools at IOLS for many years.  My dad had been a Timber Cruiser in his younger years and we lived up the road from an old time saw mill, run off the PTO of a Cat dozer. 

I taught and showed wannabe SMs knives, axes (single, double bit), hatchets (several patterns) and saws (folding camp, two man crosscut).  How to handle, how to sharpen, how to care for and use safely.  We went over ALL the Totin' Chip safety guidelines and use. 

Comes CSDC, and I did Scout Skills.  In standing up the flag poles (3 !) I had the service of several Scouts.  ALL of them said they had Totin' Chip.  NOT ONE showed any sign of safe use, so I had a Totin' Chip class on the spot.   It took more time than I expected, but all of them were hatcheting pegs to support the flag poles and using them with a new skill .  No injuries, pride of use going home that night. Peace of mind on my part.....  

[ShootingSports]

One of the ten essentials.....

[SiouxRanger]

6 hours ago, qwazse said:

The card is a tool for SPL’s to maintain discipline, if needed. In many troops, it’s not needed, so it might not be required.

If a scout is found to violate knife/axe safety, rather than temporarily robbing the scout of a tool, a PL or SPL may request to see the scout’s card, clip a corner from it, explain the safety violation that necessitates the clip, and assure the scout that you think he or she will do better next time. Once the scout presents a card with four corners cut (never happened in my lifetime), slice the card in half and invite him/her to retake a safety course with a JASM or instructor and earn a new card.

Obviously, if the scout doesn’t have his card with him, he needs to put his tool away and acquire he card.

The nice thing about this is that the scout is accountable to all the leaders in the camp. His PL doesn’t have to worry about watching every scout all the time. If he PLC agrees on the procedure, a scout who might “visit” a friend’s patrol just so he could violate safety without his PL catching him/her again can be mentored by the other PL without the two PL’s having to report on which scouts are playing loose with safety.

So, ask your PL what your troops policy is.

Clipping corners off Totin Chip card for infractions was the practice in my troop as a youth 60+ years ago. Don't recall it happening, though.

Inattention to sharps safety is rather self-regulating;  I learned a lot nursing cuts due to X-acto knives.

[DannyG]

There is no standard BSA policy. It is up to your troop or unit. Simply speaking, our troop policy lets you carry whatever tool your parents allow you to bring. Expect a safety lesson if you have not completed Totin chip. At a bare minimum, Scout Rank 5 will be covered by the first outing: Tell what you need to know about pocketknife safety. Crossovers will have the chance to complete Totin chip by summer camp. Our Cub Scout Pack was much more strict. Must have completed Whittling chip first, then only folding knives less than 3".