Mrjeff 248 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Well, a lot of people have realised that being WOKE isn't really beneficial; just ask a major college, athletic shoe manufacturer and a beverage company. This is also true for the proponents of DEI just ask the colleges, universities and manufactures that have fired their DEI employees and boarded up their offices. The BSA harps about DEI yet they sanction and organize special events for women, LGBTQ members and "people of color ." If they had a gathering of straight white folks there would be cries of racism, homophobia and who knows what else. So, can anyone explain to me the difference between these groups and how having segregated events develops the concept of DEI among Scouts? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4345 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Not sure about your references to BSA activities. It’s a big country. Some district somewhere is bound to be doing something that some scouter somewhere else will complain about. All I know … My Eagle scouts who took Citizenship in Society MB told me that it was an enjoyable experience. The minority scouters whom I’ve met are awesome. The ones who volunteer in underserved communities need our help. Making that happen is very very hard. I grew up among klansman wannabes. Comparing notes with older cousins later in life, I realized that mine was a novel phenomenon. Having, in the past decade, acquaintances whose lives were lost to such brazen malice, I’m disinclined to condemn anyone who makes an effort to specifically welcome people from underserved groups. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Navybone 170 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 8 hours ago, Mrjeff said: Well, a lot of people have realised that being WOKE isn't really beneficial; just ask a major college, athletic shoe manufacturer and a beverage company. This is also true for the proponents of DEI just ask the colleges, universities and manufactures that have fired their DEI employees and boarded up their offices. The BSA harps about DEI yet they sanction and organize special events for women, LGBTQ members and "people of color ." If they had a gathering of straight white folks there would be cries of racism, homophobia and who knows what else. So, can anyone explain to me the difference between these groups and how having segregated events develops the concept of DEI among Scouts? What do you disagree with in the Cit in Society MB? NOt talking about the political BS, "woke" or rest of it. What part of the requirements of the MB do you disagree with? My experience in our troop is that the scouts don't have issue with it (so far as it is not an active MB - camping, etc...). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 14 hours ago, Mrjeff said: So, can anyone explain to me the difference between these groups and how having segregated events develops the concept of DEI among Scouts? No, there isn't any explanation that does not reduce into the very behavior that those creating the group are trying to correct, stand up against, or bring attention to. On any form these days, for "Race" I select "Other" and write in "Human." Anywhere I can decline to enter "tribal" identifiers, I do. Every human being is unique. Therefore, there are almost 8 billion current groups to classify them into. (too many for my little old brain to keep track of.) Groups of one element 😜 But, as a mathematician, statistician, risk manager, observer of human behavior, and generally cogitating biped, I do use groups and categories to discriminate (and by that, I mean the un-hijacked definition of the word) with others, simply to conduct my daily life and stay alive. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 How is this discussion helpful? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OaklandAndy 70 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 21 hours ago, Mrjeff said: If they had a gathering of straight white folks there would be cries of racism, homophobia and who knows what else. I'd imagine most rural counties have these kinds of "straight white folk" meetings and I haven't heard anything about racism, homophobia, or anything else. Especially at the scouting level. 1 hour ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: How is this discussion helpful? I vote to close this discussion before it turns into something that it doesn't need to. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrjeff 248 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 Yall went way off rail. I'm not talking about merit badges, rural neighborhoods or any of those right turn issues. I'm talking about specified areas and events that are organized and encouraged at "Official National Scouting Events" like Jamboree and NOAC. I fail to see how this cultivates DEI. Link to post Share on other sites
Jameson76 1485 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 14 minutes ago, Mrjeff said: Yall went way off rail. I'm not talking about merit badges, rural neighborhoods or any of those right turn issues. I'm talking about specified areas and events that are organized and encouraged at "Official National Scouting Events" like Jamboree and NOAC. I fail to see how this cultivates DEI. I saw this on Scouting.org which plays into your point https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/5th-anniversary-of-girls-in-scouts-bsa-survey/ 5th Anniversary of Girls in Scouts BSA Survey March 3, 2024 We’re celebrating the 5th anniversary of girls joining the Scouts BSA program, and we want to know about your Scouts BSA experience! Every registered girl for whom we have a valid email address in the Scouts BSA program and a statistically representational number of boys from across the country will receive an invite to participate in our survey. If the Scout’s email address has not been associated with their account by their legal guardian in the registration system, their legal guardian will receive the survey on their behalf. Please allow your Scout to fill out the survey themselves. The survey will close on March 14th. I would agree that while an effort like this is no doubt noble and I would presume well intentioned, that they want ALL girls but only a statistical sample of boys, sets up a 2 tier system. Obviously they are looking for the girls experience, but have they done a survey of boys on their experiences? Any time I see events that are specifically for one gender or the other, that seems to defeat the inclusivity goal. One can also look at the registered leaders requirements for unit leadership on an outing to see that DEI is not really the same DEI in all cases. For a male troop, any two leaders can fulfill the requirement. For female troops they are required to have a female leader. Male troop, you can have 2 moms and that is super. Female troop, you have 2 dads and though shall not pass. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3680 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 22 minutes ago, Jameson76 said: I saw this on Scouting.org which plays into your point https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/5th-anniversary-of-girls-in-scouts-bsa-survey/ 5th Anniversary of Girls in Scouts BSA Survey March 3, 2024 We’re celebrating the 5th anniversary of girls joining the Scouts BSA program, and we want to know about your Scouts BSA experience! Every registered girl for whom we have a valid email address in the Scouts BSA program and a statistically representational number of boys from across the country will receive an invite to participate in our survey. If the Scout’s email address has not been associated with their account by their legal guardian in the registration system, their legal guardian will receive the survey on their behalf. Please allow your Scout to fill out the survey themselves. The survey will close on March 14th. https://www.facebook.com/officialscoutsbsa/ See complaints above link. Once again survey distribution problems, despite valid email addresses provided by scouts and guardians. Ugh. "Krone is focused on leveraging technology and innovation to propel the organization into the future." Forbes Sorry for going off-topic. How to improve surveys from National is worthy of another topic. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jameson76 said: Obviously they are looking for the girls experience, but have they done a survey of boys on their experiences? Any time I see events that are specifically for one gender or the other, that seems to defeat the inclusivity goal. The blurb itself says right there that they are surveying both girls and boys at the same time, i e they are not only surveying one gender to the exclusion of the other. If you already have a statistically valid sampling of the boys, adding more boys doesn't improve the statistical accuracy, so while it's possible they're collecting more girl data than is useful and/or cost-effective it's not creating a two-tier system. The phrasing does make me wonder if there are relatively speaking few girl members, such that it actually makes sense to send out the survey to all of them in order to maximize the odds that the number of responses ends up being a statistically valid sample of the girls as well as the boys. Edited March 4 by AwakeEnergyScouter Typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Mrjeff said: I'm talking about specified areas and events that are organized and encouraged at "Official National Scouting Events" like Jamboree and NOAC. I fail to see how this cultivates DEI. Ok, you got any links to official BSA information about these so we can all be on the same page about what specifically you're criticizing? The reason it went off the rails immediately is that people who are angry about too much DEI fit an image of a culture war warrior swinging a sword all around them. IOW it easily looks like you started a conversation by throwing a culture war grenade. If this is not what you intended you may want to be much, much, much more specific about what where when and why. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4345 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I thought you were talking about guys missing out on a root beer float social or something! I can only base my speculation on the enthusiasm with which youth in my charge have approached these surveys ... This is a service to the boys who aren’t invited to be part of the statistical sample. Feel sorry for the girls who expend the effort to complete the survey and naively think they’ll be heard instead of being used to drive to a foregone conclusion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 3 hours ago, Jameson76 said: One can also look at the registered leaders requirements for unit leadership on an outing to see that DEI is not really the same DEI in all cases. For a male troop, any two leaders can fulfill the requirement. For female troops they are required to have a female leader. Male troop, you can have 2 moms and that is super. Female troop, you have 2 dads and though shall not pass. Well, @Jameson76, that is because, statistically speaking, men abuse more than women, right? NO! https://www.statista.com/statistics/418470/number-of-perpetrators-in-child-abuse-cases-in-the-us-by-sex/ https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1825&context=honorsprojects https://www.statista.com/statistics/254893/child-abuse-in-the-us-by-perpetrator-relationship/ But, they are more likely to sexually abuse... https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens#:~:text=In 88% of the sexual,%2C and 3% are unknown. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 12 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: But, as a mathematician, statistician, risk manager, observer of human behavior, and generally cogitating biped, I do use groups and categories to discriminate (and by that, I mean the un-hijacked definition of the word) with others, simply to conduct my daily life and stay alive. I tried using reason in a discussion a couple weeks ago; emotion and cultural loyalty is strong. I don’t think the boys have chance of a fair program in the BSA anymore. Honestly, I didn’t see it coming. Barry 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: But, they are more likely to sexually abuse... https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens#:~:text=In 88% of the sexual,%2C and 3% are unknown. TBH the rule that you need a female leader around girls all the time sounds a little accusatory of men's character in general to me, despite the statistics. If the idea is that only a woman would protect girls from sexual abuse, what does that imply about all the other male leaders? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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