InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 @swilliams, Another point... Are you prepared to fully fund this project now? Doing a GoFundMe, or soliciting donations from anyone outside your family will require additional paperwork which will further slow things down. That paperwork DOES have to go to council. But, only AFTER the Proposal has been approved by Council or District Project Approval Representative. See Fundraising Application Page A (did he already get signatures on this one, too??) If you have the ability to fund the project, do it. Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: @swilliams, sent you DM as well, but for the benefit of others: If he has all signatures, have him email the Workbook (with pdf of signature page) directly to the Council or District Project Approval Representative. Contact info on proposal page B. Give a brief explanation... something like Eagle Project Coach made a commitment to submit on such-and-such a date, but this has not happened. Ask for a reply email to acknowledge receipt. He has off from school today for the holiday, right? When he sends it, have him cc his SM and Unit Advancement Chair. (again, see contact info page.) And just make sure you are holding on to any email history sent. This will buy him extension time, if needed. Any extension granted may only cover time lost since he submitted his proposal to Eagle Project Coach. His other impediments on previous projects will probably not carry any weight. ----------------- Also, some process notes... "Council" should not see his workbook until after project is complete (even if that is their process.) This is all in the hands of volunteers at this point. Specifically, the Council or District Project Approval Representative, who is most likely a volunteer. ------------------- Have a heart to heart with your son, and make sure he is committed to this. It is worth doing! If he gives up, he will regret it for the rest of his life, and be bitter about the people who have let him down thus far. Convince him to go down fighting. If he does have today off from school, after his sending in the Workbook, turn him to his Merit Badges. He has a lot to do! The Eagle Coach says he emailed it to the District Advancement Chair. The DAC says he never got it. And here's the thing I wanted to FIGHT but my son asked me not to. Our District WILL NOT allow a scout to submit the proposal paperwork directly on their own. For fundraising, Council says under $2,500 you only need approval from the Unit/CC. Between $2,500 and $10,000 you need District Approval (DAC and whatever committee is reviewing. Over that, and you need Council approval. I have no idea if or whether the fundraising differs from National guidelines. I know the approval process does. But that's water under the bridge at this point. Eagle Coach says he resubmitted. He says, "When he (District Advancement Chair) confirms receipt I will ask to expedite." It would have been nice if the "confirm receipt had happened initially. So we're in a holding pattern for now. Link to post Share on other sites
MikeS72 437 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, swilliams said: The Eagle Coach says he emailed it to the District Advancement Chair. The DAC says he never got it. And here's the thing I wanted to FIGHT but my son asked me not to. Our District WILL NOT allow a scout to submit the proposal paperwork directly on their own. For fundraising, Council says under $2,500 you only need approval from the Unit/CC. Between $2,500 and $10,000 you need District Approval (DAC and whatever committee is reviewing. Over that, and you need Council approval. I have no idea if or whether the fundraising differs from National guidelines. I know the approval process does. But that's water under the bridge at this point. Eagle Coach says he resubmitted. He says, "When he (District Advancement Chair) confirms receipt I will ask to expedite." It would have been nice if the "confirm receipt had happened initially. So we're in a holding pattern for now. Pretty sure the fundraising guidelines apply nation wide. No idea other than imposing their will on a Scout as to why they do not allow them to submit their own proposal. In our district the Scout usually works with a mentor, sometimes someone in the same unit, sometimes someone they are comfortable with from outside the unit. Once they are confident everything is ready to go with the proposal the Scout contacts the DAC to set up a meeting (in our case this meeting is frequently just before or during Roundtable) to go over everything and get approval. Once the project is complete it is the responsibility of the Scout to get it to the council chair for her approval before it goes to national. Hope everything works out for BOTH of your Scouts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1593 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 3 hours ago, swilliams said: So we're in a holding pattern for now. From my experience, the right person can fix blockers / obstacles within a very short time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1616 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: You willing?? Not my call.... Dad tried, kid not interested. I think there were other dynamics at work, too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbird 179 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 7 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said: Are you prepared to fully fund this project now? Doing a GoFundMe, or soliciting donations from anyone outside your family will require additional paperwork which will further slow things down. That paperwork DOES have to go to council. But, only AFTER the Proposal has been approved by Council or District Project Approval Representative. See Fundraising Application Page A (did he already get signatures on this one, too??) If you have the ability to fund the project, do it. You don't need approval by the local council if all of your contributions come from: the beneficiary the candidate the chartered organization the candidate’s parents, guardians, or relatives the unit or individuals in the unit Guide to Advancement section 9.0.2.10 Fundraising Issues 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 13 hours ago, Thunderbird said: You don't need approval by the local council if all of your contributions come from: the beneficiary the candidate the chartered organization the candidate’s parents, guardians, or relatives the unit or individuals in the unit Guide to Advancement section 9.0.2.10 Fundraising Issues His plan was to send the GoFundMe to pool members. He's building a bocce ball court, and his estimated cost is $2,962. I wish we were in a position to just pay for it, but we're not. It's making me a little crazy that our unit/district/council can't just follow what is set by National. It leads to so much confusion. Sometimes I feel like the adults around here like to stick their fingers in the pie a little too much, even as they say "scout led" with their mouths full of pie. Maybe it's fine that younger son wants to quit. Less headache all around. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 25 minutes ago, swilliams said: It's making me a little crazy that our unit/district/council can't just follow what is set by National. It leads to so much confusion. Sometimes I feel like the adults around here like to stick their fingers in the pie a little too much, even as they say "scout led" with their mouths full of pie. Maybe it's fine that younger son wants to quit. Less headache all around. "Rules for thee, but not for me." Unfortunately, we have to work very hard to avoid these kinds of people. Yes, it is less headache all around. But, it is also a life lesson, as you will NEVER be rid of them. Sometimes, you have to feed the dragon. As for me, my tactics are to learn all the rules, and try to think about why they are in place. Then, I find ways to work within the system to maneuver around those people who do not know/follow the rules and just want to have their own fiefdoms. There are times when you win, and times when you lose. Some of the greatest warning phrases you'll hear when you are encountering these folks are: "That's the way we do it here." (The message here is that "We know better." and "We are above the rules.") "That's the way we have always done it." (Versus an explanation and justification for the rule. It's just plain lazy thinking...) "That's the way I was taught." (Well, maybe you were taught incorrectly?? What does the book say? What is the reason for the update?) Asking you "Why?" (instead of asking themselves "Why not?") Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle_Chris 21 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 @swilliams - I've worked with many Eagle Scouts over the years. Your Scout is in an important window of time with only 3 months before their 18th Birthday. The Eagle Service project in itself typically takes several months including all of the documentation and final submission paperwork. It would be a good idea for your Scout to hand deliver items and get receipts for paperwork turned-in (our Council provides receipts for paperwork items turned in). But in parallel they should start reviewing their Eagle Scout Application (not filling out the final copy), but reviewing all rank and merit badges' completion dates and ensuring ScoutBook / Internet advancement is 100% accurate. Does your Scout have all of the required MBs? Are all dates in SB accurate? Is their Scout Handbook filled in completely for sign-offs (if you use for requirements?) They should also identify their people for recommendations (our Council had a special form that was required for the recommendations) and can write their ambitions and life purpose essay, as these will be needed for the final Eagle Scout application. Good luck! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Back to Camping Merit Badge…. younger son connected in Scoutbook to the fourth counselor, scanned and sent his workbook. Haven’t heard anything - not even acknowledgement that it was received. At this point, I’m just going to sign up to be a merit badge counselor. I’m going to request hiking, camping, and textiles. Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 The Eagle Project has been “escalated to Council” by the Council Advancement Chair, despite the other scout’s project having been done in the same location, despite the “business” making space for kids from a special needs camp to use the facility, and despite our Troop being given permission to do free swim tests at the location. Two Advancement Chairs have now looked at it and can’t make a decision, but are giving it to?… God only knows who, but if they were going to say yes, it seems they would have done it already. You know what? To those saying “Your son needs to take care of this, not you” I want to say that this situation he is in reminds me exactly of an abusive relationship I had in the past. And as hard as it is, sometimes the only thing to do is to cut ties and walk away. Not stay in the relationship and think you can make it better. I’m sorry my 17 year-old isn’t comfortable taking on a Council full of adults. As capable as he is, he’s a kid still. A respectful kid who isn’t going to fight with adults. Shame on them. Not on him, and not on me for trying to find a way to help him get the project off the ground in the face of adults who want to put their own ego and importance ahead of what is fair to the scout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Agreed... But, perhaps the reason they have bumped this up is because of the level of fundraising he needs to do. Project costs more than $2500, right? Didn't you say fundraising that amount needed district approval where you are? Well, only professionals can approve fundraising projects, I believe. Form says needs signature by "Authorized Council Approval*" and then "*Councils may delegate approval to districts or other committees according to local practices." We do not know what your local practices are... Please talk to someone on the phone. Dithering over email is not getting anyone anywhere... Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 On 2/21/2024 at 5:41 PM, InquisitiveScouter said: Agreed... But, perhaps the reason they have bumped this up is because of the level of fundraising he needs to do. Project costs more than $2500, right? Didn't you say fundraising that amount needed district approval where you are? Well, only professionals can approve fundraising projects, I believe. Form says needs signature by "Authorized Council Approval*" and then "*Councils may delegate approval to districts or other committees according to local practices." We do not know what your local practices are... Please talk to someone on the phone. Dithering over email is not getting anyone anywhere... After talking to many someones on the phone - just about everyone we know that has any connection at all to scouting - an exec from the Venture Crew district sent an email that convinced our District Advancement Chair to approve the swim club as a beneficiary. Son's project was approved, but the DAC didn't sign the fundraising application page. Son has already sent an email with several questions to his Eagle Coach, but if you all don't mind continuing to offer up advice I'd like to pose the same questions here that son sent. Guide to Advancement says the scout should not start fundraising before getting approvals. Technically, we still don't have full approval since the page wasn't signed. Once the page IS signed, the application for fundraising says it needs to be sent to Council at least two weeks before fundraising is to begin. So I'm still concerned about time. Son asked the Eagle Coach whether he's aware of any way the approval for fundraising can be sped up. Is that two week time-frame typically a hard and fast rule? I just realized as I'm typing this that neither son nor I thought to ask if he can start the project without the fundraising approval. For example, can he start marking the layout for the court and doing the excavation? There is a local company that will donate the use of a small excavator, and we already own survey stakes, line, etc. from a garden I put in last year. A fellow scout has some kind of leveling system used in grading. Off to have son send another email... Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) Ugh. He confused which signatures are needed. Only beneficiary and unit leader before sending fundraising to Council. Another edit: he's right. He was looking at the Council website which says (in part) If the “public” is to be asked to assist with funding the project (e. outside of the Unit, chartering organization, beneficiary or Scout’s family), there MUST be a Fundraising Application completed. If it is anticipated that there will be Fundraising in excess of $2500, the District Advancement Chair must sign your Fundraising Application in the Authorized Council Approval section. Edited February 28 by swilliams Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 52 minutes ago, swilliams said: Ugh. He confused which signatures are needed. Only beneficiary and unit leader before sending fundraising to Council. Another edit: he's right. He was looking at the Council website which says (in part) If the “public” is to be asked to assist with funding the project (e. outside of the Unit, chartering organization, beneficiary or Scout’s family), there MUST be a Fundraising Application completed. If it is anticipated that there will be Fundraising in excess of $2500, the District Advancement Chair must sign your Fundraising Application in the Authorized Council Approval section. Once the proposal is approved, he can go full bore on planning, coordinating, scheduling, preliminary site work, etc. He just cannot do any fundraising until he get that separate form back. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now