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Irate potential cubmaster

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The board probably has an executive committee, but that hardly matters. The COR can certainlly get advice from the pastor and board members, then choose a course of action that represents the church's wishes. Nobody in BSA can gainsay that.

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They literally do not have a vote.  What they want is irrelevant.  What the CO / COR / CC want is relevant

Devotedautismadhdmom:   I think I finally read your whole nom de forum.  I think I understand more and your dedication is to be applauded. To my mind, here is the final tally (I hope I have all t

Devoted,   I'll say it one more time and then I'm done: you have the power, responsibility, and the authority to ask this man and his girlfriend to leave and stay away. It's your decision an

What a mess. Sorry you're going through all of this after such efforts to resurrect a Pack.

In reading through the thread, all I keep coming back to is the application and background check. Is that still not resolved? Any other point is moot.

And how anyone at the district level can approve of this happening is absurd. There is failure up and down the chain here. More than one person should be removed from their position here if you ask me.

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My COR sent a letter to the council head stating we Did not want this person registered in our unit, and giving reasons, with his violations. I had previously spoke with him and this is what he stated we needed to do. Once he received the email from her, he called her and said they will still run his background check. 2 days later, my DE called me and said Hey! Great news! He is approved, everything came back ok. That I need to come in and pay for his charter. Also, in the same conversation, I have a leader that transferred in, that has been unable to access his account to get his YPT done. We've been trying and working with the local office since Dec. The DE is the one that snooped on the desk and sent his app in, which we were waiting because we knew there was a problem with his account. So now, he told me that my COR will need to email our registrar and have him removed. Once he can get his YPT done we can add him in. So, in short, the DE  says I can drop the person, that we have accepted, but NOT the one we have said we do NOT want, who I also reported YPT violations on. I did our recharter in Dec! The registrar says effective Friday, we will not be in effect anymore, unless she receives payment for the 1 person we did NOT have on our Charter and paperwork. (DE sent in separate )

Therefore, as this man has continued to threaten me, I will be giving the COR a resignation letter and withdraw for myself and my son tomorrow night. I can not sign my name to a unit or person that has already violated YPT. 

Thank you for the concern and follow-up. 

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Wow.   I am sorry for your travail.  

The last thing you might do is document all of it (yes, one more time) from the top.  Read it thru a couple of times, have someone else read thru it to make sure it makes sense (and is not just your "unloading"), and send copies of it all to the Council Scout Executive,  the District Executive and the Council Commissioner.  These names and addresses can be found on line in your Council Website.  If you still feel you can have no Scouting connection, I understand your reasons, but you might (might) find another Scout Unit down the road.  

I wish you well and your son a blessed life.  

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@Devotedautismadhdmom  I'm sorry that you have had to endure what seems to have been a very stressful situation for you, and indirectly for your son, who I'm sure has picked up on how difficult this has been on you.

I'm really astonished by this situation...a guy with an alleged drug possession charge appoints himself Cubmaster of a Pack despite complete opposition from the COR and yourself as CC...then council supposedly approves him as a registered leader and you and the COR feel that you are completely powerless to remove him,  despite the fact that you and the COR both have all of the power and authority that you need to remove him.  

I do get the sense that you and the COR are both somewhat intimidated about confronting this new self-appointed Cubmaster and because of that you keep looking to council to remove him for you.

As others have said, it's the charter org that determines who will serve as registered leaders; council just conducts the background checks and approves or denies the application at the national level. 

I don't mean to sound harsh, but f you and the COR lack the assertiveness to make it clear to this new Cubmaster that he has no place in your unit, then perhaps you and she aren't well suited for those particular roles...

Granted, ideally in a perfect world, units would not have to deal with these types of situations, but obviously there are unpleasant issues that come up in leading a unit, and when they do, unit leader have to be ready to address them. 

Again, I'm sorry that you and your son have had to go through this. Finding a new unit may be the best option at this point, or if some other leader or parent in your unit may be willing to act on your and the COR's behalf and make it clear to the new Cubmaster that's he not wanted, then that would solve the problem.

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On 1/22/2019 at 4:10 PM, SSScout said:

Good googamooka,  either he is in or he is out. What is so hard about that?  Your UC and DC and DoFS (Boy Scouts?) and CSE have NOTHING to do with this.  All they can do is nod their heads and say "okay" to your Pack Committee/COR's decision. 

This problem is for YOU, your Pack Parents, your COR and IH to solve.  If he does not sign the proper papers, take the proper training, get the proper clearances, he is NOT a Scout Leader.  If he refuses to "play nice" and cooperate with the other parents (your committee !) and work for the good of the Pack,  he needs to be sat down with a BIG cup of coffee,  and dealt with.  End of story. Give him the letter.  Speak with your lawyer. 

As for the mother, are you sure she would be a good choice?   The wannabe CM will always be in the background.  The resentment will always be there. She will have a difficult time too, dealing with his "controlling" behavior.   I would hope you could find a proper , not tempo, CM who would be willing to "sign the papers, take the training, get the clearances, play nice  " and KiS, MiF for the Cubs.....   

The above is what was suggested awhile ago.  It still stands.   My last suggestion, about the letter to the Council Scout Executive and others are for YOUR satisfaction only.  Your Cub Pack must still deal with this situation, and the above is what must be done, if not with your leadership, than with someone else's.   If the wannabe CM is not the identified, selected, desired by the Pack CM, then he must be told and his membership in the Pack denied, REGARDLESS of what anyone else in the Scout world says or does. 

I wish you and your son well,  God's blessings be with you,  see you on the trail, and now I must get out and clear the snow off my car so I can attend our Pack's Blue and Gold tonight. 

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Sorry you are having to go through this. A few things though.

1 Who signed the "Signature of chartered organization head or representative" block? If the COR or IH didn't sign, then that may be a legal issue (Fraud or forgery)

2. Was the "My COR sent a letter to the council head stating we Did not want this person registered in our unit, and giving reasons, with his violations." sent via certified mail or electronically? If certified mail, do you have a statement they received it? If electronically, do you have a copy of it, and a reply they received it? Hopefully you have some type of documentation that they received the letter.

I ask these questions because the only person who can overrule the COR is the IH. If they approved the application, then the IH will need to send the letter.

BUT nevertheless, this is something the COR needs to contact the Field Director, who is your DE's boss, the Director of Field Service, usually the #2 person in the council, or go directly to the Scout Executive. As a COR, he is part of both the district and council committees, and should be able to have access to these people. For a council to go against the wishes of a COR, UNLESS THE IH DISAGREES WITH THE COR (emphasis. and I  have seen it happen 1 time), is highly unusual.

Something doesn't smell right.


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Final update.

Thank you all for your input. 

The person in question has made things a bit easier for us. He has left the mother of the scout, so doesn't really have any interest/or need to be in our group any longer. IF he chooses to continue in the child's life, our decision has been made official. His background check cane back with several things in it. My COR asked someone who has been involved in our local scouting for decades. He stated with the level of his background check, first off, he would not accept it. Add that to he is not the scouts parent and no longer in the relationship there really isn't a need for him to be there. Therefore, we had a committee meeting, which it was decided that myself and the COR would send our emails if response to the scout executive, as requested, and they said they would issue the letter on our behalf to him. 

It just bothers me that our new DE kept fueling his fire so much through this, which I feel excalated it to this level. 

Again thank you all for helping me witg kind words of encouragement and advice. 

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Thanks for the update. It's not surprising that the background check came back with problems. It was hard to imagine he wasn't avoiding it, with so much time having gone by and it was still not done. Hard to imagine someone isn't trying hard to avoid a background check when they act like that.

This still seems like a massive failure at the district and council level to adequately support the Pack in this. You essentially had an unregistered, non-background-checked adult pretending to be a CM. And seemingly refusing to allow a background check. That should have been a huge red flag for everyone, all the way up the chain. And yet it took this long to finally resolve the matter, and only really because of what happened in the guy's personal life.

While it is generally true that DEs tend to be slow to action with Pack affairs, preferring to let units and COs resolve these matters, in this case I would think that this would be the kind of thing that just had to be dealt with immediately. That a Pack was operating with a rogue CM, who clearly was causing chaos among the committee and Pack operations, with known past legal issues and refusing to take a background check, how they managed to let it go on this long is baffling.

For all of the emphasis we get these days on YPT, that something like this was allowed to go on for so long just defies all logic. I still think someone (probably the DE in question) should be removed from their post for failing to adequately address this and protect the scouts in this Pack.

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This ...

On 3/7/2019 at 3:58 PM, Devotedautismadhdmom said:

... It just bothers me that our new DE kept fueling his fire so much through this, which I feel excalated it to this level. ...

I've had some decent DE's, but I learned right quick to yank back on the chain. Don't let having to do that get under your skin. Sometimes these pro's get input from the wrong people and it sends them down the wrong rabbit hole. It doesn't happen all the time. But when it does, don't hesitate to call a spade a spade to whoever needs to hear it.

In a couple of months if you're at a district/council event and you see this DE, shake his hand. Do your best to try to make amends. Move on.

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I do, through this all, I have gone to each meeting, head held high, act as though nothing has happened. No need to create tension with the others. With me DE I continue going to him with about other things, while biting my tongue at the irritation and just trying to wrap my head around what was he thinking in his huge push? Something I will never know. But, it's all over now. I can move on to better things. In fact, tonight, I had a Troop visit our Pack meeting, requesting to join our Charter! Everyone is pleased with what they had to say, and excited to grow!

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