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Irate potential cubmaster

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  SSScout and sst3rd are wise old birds who have truly " been there and done that" many times over.  

  In my not so humble opinion, they give very sound advice here.

  I cannot help but wonder what is he trying to hide by not allowing the background check.   Major red flag right there.


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They literally do not have a vote.  What they want is irrelevant.  What the CO / COR / CC want is relevant

Devotedautismadhdmom:   I think I finally read your whole nom de forum.  I think I understand more and your dedication is to be applauded. To my mind, here is the final tally (I hope I have all t

Devoted,   I'll say it one more time and then I'm done: you have the power, responsibility, and the authority to ask this man and his girlfriend to leave and stay away. It's your decision an

First of all,  THANK YOU for all of the things you do to support Cub Scouting in your area.  

Second, I am SO SORRY that you have all this drama coming from this man and his "friends".  

Now, let's get practical.

1.  You have a lot going on in your life.  This guy is a pain in the rear.  Are you willing to push forward and take care of this problem, or do you prefer to go join another Pack?   Either answer is OK.  

2.  Jerk is not the Cubmaster.  It is crazy that he buys a uniform, shows up and assumes the role and starts taking over the meetings and conversations.  YOU are the Committee Chair, and YOU are in the power position.  Your Chartered Organization Representative is even more powerful.

3.  Call your Scout executive and tell him or her about the issues with this non registered person playing leader and creating havoc in your group.  Stick to the big things -- acting as a Cubmaster without authorization or registration, showing up in uniform and taking over meetings, trying to divide the families and get support for him without ever having registered, how he's starting to try to gain support from your council folks when he's not even registered (!) and the problems with the refusal for the statement of religious principle and background check.  Ask your Scout Executive for help.  Emphasize his illegitimacy and lack of any training.  Ask them for support to help your Pack.  See what they recommend, and discuss some of the ideas below with them.  The Scout Executive could certainly send a letter downstream to this individual and all of the relevant district staff that this troublemaker is not part of Scouting, period.  Ask the Scout Executive to help you make a plan for the survival of your pack.  Your key phrases are  -- I need help, and we have an imposter leader who is unregistered, refuses a criminal background check, refuses the statement of religious principle and is not YPT trained. It's getting out of control and I need help to fix this situation. 

4.  I agree with others who say -- change your committee time, date, place, and do not inform or invite the troublemaker.  

5.  You must formally tell the troublemaker he is not the Cubmaster, not a registered leader, and not welcome at your events, period.  Restraining order sounds good to me.  You have to be careful that if this person has been verbally abusive, he might become even worse when disciplined.  You and the COR are both female, and it sounds like the fake CM feels like he can bully and intimidate you.  You might want to have some guys around who feel comfortable standing up to him if he starts to act physically intimidating.  Be careful. 

6.  You must communicate to ALL YOUR FAMILIES that troublemaker is not the Cubmaster.  It sounds like he is playing the part and the families are following along.   You need to give them the name and contact information for the person they should work with, an interim Cubmaster.

7.  You need an interim Cubmaster.  Who will do it?  Who do you know?  You need someone else in uniform who is properly registered to lead your next Pack meeting.  Ask your district for help and see if anyone will help you out for 6 - 12 months to support you and get you through this.   You need your Key Three --  COR, CC and Cubmaster -- to exist as a Pack.  You need to figure out who will help you during this difficult time.   If you do not have a Key Three at recharter, you do not have a Pack.  Your Scout Executive should care about supporting a Pack in a low-income area.  Hopefully he or she will have your back and put some effort into your Pack's survival.

8.  Keep your head up.  Don't sweat the small stuff.  At first, this person (I was going to say parent, but that's not even accurate) sounds like someone with a lot of enthusiasm for Scouting.  But, if he's not working with you, he's in the wrong.  I would not stress over little things --- if someone wants to suggest something that costs money, that is not the end of the world.  If someone wants to plan a fundraiser, that might be good.  If someone wants to run a safe pinewood derby car workshop, then that is great.  But the problem is that this person has no respect for the chain of command in Scouting, has no training, and is not willing to follow the rules.  That is no good.   You should welcome all kinds of ideas and suggestions, and even try new things, but this whole charade of acting like the Cubmaster without a proper registration is a big, big problem.

9.  If you and your COR and veteran Den Leaders stick together, you can beat this. 

I think you are beyond working it out with this person.  I know you are feeling very upset over this issue when you have put so much into helping your Pack.  If he is not leaving, then I think you should move on to an established Pack where you can relax and enjoy. 

It is OK to cut your losses and move on if you want to.  I would probably be visiting other Packs as well as working with your Scout Executive.  Plan A is to fix your Pack and get this jerk out of the picture. Plan B is to move to another Pack, either plan is good for you.

Best wishes, and I hope that you find a solution that works for your family. 





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Our scout executive is new this year. Seems real unsure of a lot of things, and came into our previous issue of restarting at the end. During the bulk of it, is was the field Service director walking me through everything. One of the commissioners, her child is close friends with the "cm"s girlfriends sister. Which I am seeing to be as more impartial, and not wanting to cause waves on the homefront end. Which I would have never seen coming from her. I tried talking to my COR last night again and tell her I was turning over all my paperwork if the applications were signed. I explained what the stress this man is doing to me, and have had to go to the Dr the day of the last 2 meetings it got so bad. I tried showing her all the violations they are putting on Facebook, that they have insisted they are allowed to do. As in, they took a female scout to a garage, there are pictures, that I screenshot, that have since been deleted, of him standing by, watching this 4th grade webelo cutting her own pinewood car with the Powersaws. He disclosed a drug arrest in 2013. But a simple Google search shows 2 others that were in the paper. How many more? Can we actually do our own check? As in go get a report from the courts, as it is public record? The commissioners fed into their need to do weekly camping. Said yes, do this and that, here and there. Not once was it mentioned, that therehas to be a minimum of one Baloo trained from the initial meeting and planning, through till everyone is home, and not miss one step, second, etc. No one in our group is trained. Since they said that, he has already told parents of 2 camps we are doing. We can't. He has also reverted to reaching out to each family and communicate with them personally. I can only hope that his post thispast weekend, didn't pan out to him "picking up their child to help them cut their cars". That post was also deleted soon after. The girlfriend, been doing webelo leader, told me last night, one of her boys she was textingback and forth the day before to "knock out a couple requirements". She then texted me last night that she is still texting this child, personally, not through the parent, or with another adult in the thread. This is a violation of youth protection, which I know she took. 

Another commissioner, his son, was a student of my COR 35 years ago. So she trusted him 100%. They keep telling her and I, he has the drive and ambition needed, I need a cubmaster, etc. So, last night, she signed both of their applications. I refuse to at this point. With the violations, his actions, etc. I was up for proposing her to be the CM, but have been pointed out, that he would only still be the thorn through her.  "You can't have a good unit without clear communication and a CC and CM that work well together and trust each other. An even better unit has a great relationship with the COR". I feel my hands are tied now, with people taking personal relationships and putting them above BSAriles and regulations. 

I really like the idea of asking for an interim CM. 

I can't honestly sign an application or be a CC of a unit that I see so many violations happening. Mayne my age shows, and I take children's safety and well being as priority number 1. 

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I am still so sorry.  A pushy person can push their way into an organization, and it sounds like this method is working for this guy.   It sounds like the commissioners want you to have a CM, any CM, and this one seems to have a lot of energy, and they want you to work it out so you have your Key 3 and then it's less work to try to recruit another CM. 

Now, do you go along with it, fight it, or move to a different group?

From what I am reading, the council can decide to allow a person with a criminal history to volunteer if they decide the person has cleaned up and is on a better path.  I am also reading that the Chartered Organization (the church) can still say no thanks.

What have the responses been like to the lack of training? 

I guess my question is, who will work with this Cubmaster and Den Leader to ensure they follow BSA rules?  Since they have shown no respect to you, I would think that CC is not the right role for you anymore.  (Not your fault, but it's not practical or healthy for you to have to be the person to have to confront the CM and request compliance.) 

I think in your shoes, I would resign as CC and focus on my Bear Scout.   I would probably focus on making the Bear Den experience a good time for that group of boys.  A good den is a good thing. 

Maybe that makes me sound like a quitter, but I think limiting your exposure to this person would be good for you.  Why bang your head against the wall?

Since you can only control yourself, you have to find where you want to be in this situation.  

I will mention that I was an interim CM (after 4 years as DL and one year as ACM) with our Pack and recently stepped down because of a conflict that was making my volunteering no fun anymore.  Now I am just the parent, and it's awesome!  (I still volunteer with a Troop and the Council on other stuff.)

I don't generally like pushy Scouters, but on the positive side, they can get a lot of stuff done.  He needs to be trained. If he wants to try stuff, that's fine, but they need to follow Safe Scouting.  I don't think that given the history that you are the right person to try to enforce the rules and rein him in. 



Edited by WisconsinMomma
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That is where I am now. I have spent so much time the last year on getting our unit on top and running great. I felt a huge release lifted from my shoulders once we were where we needed to be. But then, him coming in and making accusation and threats towards me. I am tired. I don't have that kind of a fight in me. As a CC, I should be enjoying the meetings with my son at the den meetings. And my only big concern should be the committee meetings. I can't be in a group that will be putting these kids at risk. I am not going to push my child to their fullest earning fundraisers (he sold $2000 [$880 personal sales, $1120 storefront, which we were the only ones to show up to 7 out of 12], another boy from last year sold $900 in popcorn tgis year. Our total sales with 16 scouts? $4200. That is $1300 sold amongst the other 14 scouts.), only to find the whole groups year of scouting. I think I will send out an email to our executive and Director of field services and tell them I need a private confidential meeting with both of them. Show them the violations of the "CM" as well as the girlfriend. Tell them they can do what they need to with the information. But I propose that he is banned from the group, we seek am interim CM, or ask someone in our group to step up, propose that the girlfriend, if she chooses to stay, be an assistant to a trained interim for a year before promoting. If that can't happen and they also feel he needs to be allowed to continue on, then I will be looking for a new unit for my chikd, as I don't feel he would be treated fairly, nor will I watch violations and risks with kids happen. 

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I'll say it one more time and then I'm done: you have the power, responsibility, and the authority to ask this man and his girlfriend to leave and stay away. It's your decision and you don't owe them an explanation. If he goes to council, then you can have that special meeting and present your evidence. If he goes over your head to the COR or IH, again, you can have that special meeting and present your evidence. You approve leaders in your unit. YOU!

If he doesn't get it, call the police. It's really that simple. 


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Good googamooka,  either he is in or he is out. What is so hard about that?  Your UC and DC and DoFS (Boy Scouts?) and CSE have NOTHING to do with this.  All they can do is nod their heads and say "okay" to your Pack Committee/COR's decision. 

This problem is for YOU, your Pack Parents, your COR and IH to solve.  If he does not sign the proper papers, take the proper training, get the proper clearances, he is NOT a Scout Leader.  If he refuses to "play nice" and cooperate with the other parents (your committee !) and work for the good of the Pack,  he needs to be sat down with a BIG cup of coffee,  and dealt with.  End of story. Give him the letter.  Speak with your lawyer. 

As for the mother, are you sure she would be a good choice?   The wannabe CM will always be in the background.  The resentment will always be there. She will have a difficult time too, dealing with his "controlling" behavior.   I would hope you could find a proper , not tempo, CM who would be willing to "sign the papers, take the training, get the clearances, play nice  " and KiS, MiF for the Cubs.....  

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The stress here is obviously real, and I understand you are wanting to just make sure you dot your i's and cross your t's, but council has nothing to do here.  Bottom line, this person is refusing to sign the application, and has thus not gone through any channel to be approved as of yet by council, so they have no dog in this fight at the moment.  And do not let a unit commissioner tell you otherwise, they have no authority over you.  As this individual has not submitted an application, and has not gone through background check etc. they cannot be a leader until they do so.  I'm with @SSScout that the mother of this child may not be such a great choice, as I could very well see the scenario of this man being on every activity and defacto assuming the role as ACM (also would add stress to whomever is serving in the CM role during this "transition time" that they have to deal with him being around, and clearly he has no respect for authority).  I know I have seen threads on this forum before (as well as "real life" experience) of statements that the ACM or ADL doesn't really have to go through the registration process, which is plain wrong.  I would never want to be the person who has to explain to a parent why their child was physically/mentally/sexually abused because I tried to save someone a few bucks and not register them.  

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So, @Devotedautismadhdmom, is the pastor the institution head (IH)? I ask because in some churches, the chair of the church board is the IH, and often they designate the Pastor with the authority to take immediate action in theses kinds of situations (Sometimes the Pastor can be the COR.) In any case, their decision trumps BSA's. The buck stops there. Seen it done.

The IH can most certainly file a restraining order on any person or group who unlawfully acts against their organizations wishes. This doesn't have to be a long drawn out thing. She calls the police and says an imposter is trying to insert himself uninvited into one of her congregation's youth programs and is disrupting the peace and her church's freedom of association.


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