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Eagle1993

Family Scouting Update

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4 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Except as adult volunteers, we are not consumers. Our scouts are the consumers. We are the instruments of the Law and the Oath. When we remove our expertise from this process, we are not deciding to buy a cheaper or better product, we are deciding that we longer want to help this group of youth learn the Law and the Oath. Quitting on our existing scouts might be the final "lesson" about the Oath and the Law that we ever teach them.

Huh? The business model view does not mix well with the values and members of a movement view.

If a guy -who is a volunteer- wants to walk away after many years it is his right. Say thanks and let him go. Why make him drink the flavor-aid? No need to vilify someone. 

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25 minutes ago, gblotter said:

More accurately, the UK is recovering after dramatic membership losses. Nowhere near previous membership levels.

The reasons for the intial decline were complex and having been a scout during that time it is broadly described as due to years of stagnation and failure to modernise.

Also it is rapidly approaching previous levels. The best estimates, before proper censuses were done is that  membership peaked at about 650K. Last census we were at 618K, widely expected to be up again this year.

So yes, growing and thriving.

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1 minute ago, Cambridgeskip said:

Also it is rapidly approaching previous levels. The best estimates, before proper censuses were done is that  membership peaked at about 650K. Last census we were at 618K, widely expected to be up again this year.

So yes, growing and thriving.

I stand corrected. I am happy for the successes of UK Scouting.

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Personally, I could live with girls in the Troop. I still think it would be to the detriment of some boys who would benefit from a single sex environment but I agree, as many others do on this site and in my district and council that we will end up with some sort of co-ed system really fast.

What wounded me, stupid idealistic person that I still am well into middle age, is how badly National made this decision and how little regarded experienced scouter's opinions are on this and many other issues (outdoor method, merit badges, patrol method). I am getting worn down by the greater institution's incompetence and I too am debating taking my services elsewhere. Because I really enjoy working with the boys it will be a real personal loss.

Most sadly, my CC told me since I have less than 20 years in as an ASM (unlike some of you guys) I am not vested in the ASM pension plan. Bummer.

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1 hour ago, David CO said:

When I write out a check, I feel like I'm a consumer. 

If you write out a check to "Save the Whales" does that mean your a consumer of whales? :p

If you are a consumer, what good or service is it that you are buying? I don't have the years of service you do but I can't think of a good or service I gained through my years of volunteering (and paying registration fees). My son and other scouts obtained a good or service but all I gained was miles on my car and bigger holes in my wallet.

Edited by Hawkwin
you=your

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1 hour ago, gblotter said:

My son attended National Jamboree last year,

There were girls at the Jambo last year.

Edited by Hawkwin
1st year for girls at Jambo.

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1 minute ago, Hawkwin said:

There were girls at the Jambo last year. There have probably been girls at the Jambo for decades - just a guess.

The girls from our council were part of a separate Venturing Crew. They Venturing Crew ran their own Jamboree program were never seen except at the airport.

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15 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Say thanks and let him go. Why make him drink the flavor-aid? No need to vilify someone. 

No vilification, just confusion how someone can make an informed decision when we don't know what BSA4G will look like. As I stated, perhaps now for the third time, if troops are forced to have girls, then those leaders have my sympathy and support in their decision.

Step away if it turns out as bad as some seem to think it will be but don't step away over the fear of what it could be.

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18 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Actually, yes. My son attended National Jamboree last year, but he is avoiding the upcoming World Jamboree despite recruitment efforts from our council. The flavor of the two events is significantly different (only partly because of girls).

 

 

You know, if I ever had the opportunity to speak to your son I would ask that he reconsider. While I have never camped at a world jamboree I did have the privelidge of going to the European Jamboree in 2005. It was an extraordinary experience. To one side of my unit were Italians, the other side of them were Irish. The side of us were Polish, the other side of them Isralie. Across the track from us were Dutch, Swiss, Portugese and Ugandan units. Altogether I think there were 68 countries with contingents there from across Europe and many beyond.

In 2015 my group were luck enough to send 5 explorer scouts as part of the UK contingent to the Japan jamboree. They all loved it. None of them were expecting the experience they got.

You're quite right it's different flavour. It's not a cheap flavour, but it's a unique one. You can't really anticipate it till you get there.

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2 hours ago, qwazse said:

Would you take them to a reservation where the boys' troops were assigned a camp on one side of a 250 acre lake, and the BSA4G troops were assigned a camp on the other side of the lake? Camps would have different, largely independent, staff (from director on down - same rangers though). Some facilities (Cope, Shotgun) would be on a red line that's about 400 yards wide.

Just picking your brain for the sake of certain council camping committees who will try to be proactive about this kind of thing. If such an idea is a non-starter, they hopefully won't waste much time it and hustle back to the drawing board.

wasn't this a movie?.... the boys would sneak over to the girls side of the lake and prank them....and the girls would at other times sneak over to the boy's side for revenge

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Do you and your scouts wear the World Crest on their uniform?

crest.jpg

funny thing.... I've never seen this thing on my daughters' GSUSA uniforms.... so much for unity.

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2 minutes ago, Cambridgeskip said:

You're quite right it's different flavour. It's not a cheap flavour, but it's a unique one. You can't really anticipate it till you get there.

A Scout from our troop attended an earlier World Jamboree. His feedback is primarily what deterred us. Among his Jamboree cohorts, he reported very crude behavior with lots of swearing and pornography. Adult leaders seemed unconcerned and unwilling to address it. Perhaps the addition of girls into their contingent actually would have moderated that unsavory aspect.

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4 minutes ago, blw2 said:

funny thing.... I've never seen this thing on my daughters' GSUSA uniforms.... so much for unity.

Too bad if all them have to wear it it is another fund raising opportunity!

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2 minutes ago, blw2 said:

funny thing.... I've never seen this thing on my daughters' GSUSA uniforms.... so much for unity.

GSUSA, as I understand, is a member of WAGGGS not the WOSM.

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