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Family Scouting Update

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21 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Would you take them to a reservation where the boys' troops were assigned a camp on one side of a 250 acre lake, and the BSA4G troops were assigned a camp on the other side of the lake? Camps would have different, largely independent, staff (from director on down - same rangers though). Some facilities (Cope, Shotgun) would be on a red line that's about 400 yards wide.

Just picking your brain for the sake of certain council camping committees who will try to be proactive about this kind of thing. If such an idea is a non-starter, they hopefully won't waste much time it and hustle back to the drawing board.

I wouldn't want our boys sharing merit badge classes, evening campfires, flag ceremonies, or dining hall times with girl troops. I seek to continue the same summer camp experience our boys have enjoyed before these announcements.

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25 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Would you take them to a reservation where the boys' troops were assigned a camp on one side of a 250 acre lake, and the BSA4G troops were assigned a camp on the other side of the lake? Camps would have different, largely independent, staff (from director on down - same rangers though). Some facilities (Cope, Shotgun) would be on a red line that's about 400 yards wide.

Just picking your brain for the sake of certain council camping committees who will try to be proactive about this kind of thing. If such an idea is a non-starter, they hopefully won't waste much time it and hustle back to the drawing board.

 

I think we need to be realistic. We already know not only from those serving units on the ground, but also from  BSA's own info on "Linked Troops" that troops will essentially be coed since the two "troops" can have shared volunteers, meet at the same location at the same time, go camping together, etc. I do not believe Scouters involved with 'Linked Troops" will allow their "boys troop" and "girls troop" to be placed in separate campsites. Further I do not believe most councils have the financial resources to hold two, separate single gender summer camps at the same time.

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15 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I do not believe Scouters involved with 'Linked Troops" will allow their "boys troop" and "girls troop" to be placed in separate campsites. Further I do not believe most councils have the financial resources to hold two, separate single gender summer camps at the same time.

So in other words, the whole BSA4G structure is unworkable. I agree that BSA4G is a very bad idea, and I have opposed it from the beginning.

Edited by gblotter

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30 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I wouldn't want our boys sharing merit badge classes, evening campfires, flag ceremonies, or dining hall times with girl troops. I seek to continue the same summer camp experience our boys have enjoyed before these announcements.

Do you and your scouts wear the World Crest on their uniform?

crest.jpg

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19 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I wouldn't want our boys sharing merit badge classes, evening campfires, flag ceremonies, or dining hall times with girl troops. I seek to continue the same summer camp experience our boys have enjoyed before these announcements.

That's what I was thinking. (In fact, any BSA4G troop of mine would not be found anywhere near a dining hall. :mad:) The two camps don't even share the same counselors or campfires, let alone the same classes! So, if the demand were there, the camp could field one week where the boys get the dinning hall, and another week where they get patrol cooking. But, like I said, there are a couple of activities that -- to maintain safety standards -- are between the two camps. These usually only attract older scouts.

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2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Do you and your scouts wear the World Crest on their uniform?

@RememberSchiff, I don't think "global-shaming" American scouters is appropriate. Nor is it fair. Pakistan, one of the fastest growing associations -- strictly boys -- also wears its crest with pride. Other associations work hard to honor their groups who want their youth to have a unisex camping experience.

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21 minutes ago, gblotter said:

So in other words, the whole BSA4G structure is unworkable. 

You have to take the longer term view, BSA4G spelled another way = Coed.  That is where the train is headed with CSE Surbaugh and the National board stoking the fires to keep up the full head of steam.  We all have a couple of choices, get on board and embrace the change (make no mistake the whole CO has a choice  will be an cast aside) or just be pushed to the side.  Those that want to experience a single gender type program for boys, not sure where you can go.  Apparently there is one for girls called Girl Scouts.  Unlike the BSA (name subject to change) they are pretty adamant about the whole single gender thing.

From their post after the October announcement: (note it mentions girl 8 times in just the excerpt)

"Girl Scouts is the best girl leadership organization in the world, created with and for girls, We believe strongly in the importance of the all-girl, girl-led, and girl-friendly environment that Girl Scouts provides, which creates a free space for girls to learn and thrive."

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7 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@RememberSchiff, I don't think "global-shaming" American scouters is appropriate. Nor is it fair. Pakistan, one of the fastest growing associations -- strictly boys -- also wears its crest with pride. Other associations work hard to honor their groups who want their youth to have a unisex camping experience.

The World Crest is a symbol of unity and world brotherhood. If you don't believe that and you are free to do so, then don't wear the World Crest on your uniform.

To understate I was EXTREMELY unhappy with women becoming SM's back in the 80's, that said I would still participate with them in any scout function.  We were all scout leaders.

 

Edited by RememberSchiff
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5 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The World Crest is a symbol of unity and world brotherhood. If you don't believe that and you are free to do so, then don't wear the World Crest on your uniform.

To understate I was EXTREMELY unhappy with women becoming SM's back in the 80's, that said I would still participate with them in any scout function.  We were all scout leaders.

 

gblotter  is entitled to his opinion.

Oh, I know....

Agree to disagree

 

 

Edited by an_old_DC
clarification
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5 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The World Crest is a symbol of unity and world brotherhood. If you don't believe that and you are free to do so, then don't wear the World Crest on your uniform.

So if I don't embrace coed camping, I am unworthy to wear the World Crest? Please clarify.

Edited by gblotter

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51 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I wouldn't want our boys sharing merit badge classes, evening campfires, flag ceremonies, or dining hall times with girl troops. I seek to continue the same summer camp experience our boys have enjoyed before these announcements.

If they are scouts same as you and your scouts, where is the unity and brotherhood in your statement above?

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2 minutes ago, gblotter said:

So if I don't embrace coed camping, I am unworthy to wear the World Crest? Please clarify.

Funny, I had the same sort of feedback when I spoke with our local SE (sorry CEO) after the announcement, he rolled out the term "conditional scouters".  Guess the implication is I was only active and supportive as long as I like the conditions.

Clearly the challenge is conditions have changed.  I did not change it, you did not change it.   Not sure this is all good change management

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9 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

or just be pushed to the side.  Those that want to experience a single gender type program for boys, not sure where you can go.

This is exactly what I see happening. If you want a to maintain a single-gender boy troop, the available program options for summer camp, camporee, merit badge midways, etc will just push you aside. The girls will prevail and the boys will walk. That is essentially what happened with coed Scouting in Canada. Scouts Canada is now primarily a girl movement and just a shadow of its former self after dramatic membership losses.

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13 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Funny, I had the same sort of feedback when I spoke with our local SE (sorry CEO) after the announcement, he rolled out the term "conditional scouters".  Guess the implication is I was only active and supportive as long as I like the conditions.

Clearly the challenge is conditions have changed.  I did not change it, you did not change it.   Not sure this is all good change management

Deja vu all over again. Felt the same when DRP was forced on us.

Edited by RememberSchiff
Deja vu all over again mistyped. :(

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4 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

If they are scouts same as you and your scouts, where is the unity and brotherhood in your statement above?

If your desire is to strip me of the World Crest for supporting single-gender Scouting, you will get your wish soon enough. 2018 will be my last year as a registered Scouter. After BSA is rid of folks like me, there will be no obstacles for your utopia of unity.

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