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TAHAWK

"Professional" Compensation Package Cut

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2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

What is this thing called Social Security? ;)

Agreed. Social Security will never pay me what I have and will continue to pay into it. And companies can change pension plans, like the BSA, in a heartbeat.

 

The really sad part about Social Security is that if I was by law required to invest the SS amount deducted from my pay, I would have 3-4 times as much money as I do now.  I could have had a high priced financial consultant working my money and do better than some overpaid SS office flunky and the politicians making the decisions. 

Nuff said.

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On 1/9/2018 at 9:41 AM, Eagle1993 said:

A scout is Thrifty!  Without a doubt, pensions are becoming a rare benefit.  That said, I don’t believe DE’s salaries are high (based upon previous forum threads) and the loss of this benefit won’t help.  Yes, one can live off low salaries but not everyone is willing to work for $30-$40-$50k less per year.  My wife is a volunteer president of a food pantry.   The salary and benefits they offer their employees is minimal.  The issue they are running into is finding great leaders willing to work for such low salary and benefits, so they settle for suboptimal performance.     

My concern is that by cutting benefits on already low salary you are on a race to the bottom.  You’ll see jobs not being filled or filled by individuals that may not have the best performance.  I’m sure there are great leaders that are willing to sacrifice further, but it is definitely not good news for attracting top talent.  

 

 

I think that how this will go, is that people who will take the job at it's offered pay will take the job.   If they are smart, they will either a) take the job for a short time and trade up to a better paying job,  b) be the second income in their family and have a spouse's income to help, or c) have worked other jobs, become financially well-set and take the DE job for the community service later in life. 

Not everyone needs to make a big wage.  Some people will find these jobs fit them, others won't and that's OK.  

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WM,

 

I think your analysis is correct. 

For 36 years we have had a short supply of , on average, not very impressive DEs, and the compensation package has just been cut significantly. So I do not see the results doing anything but getting worse.

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I think DE's are like many church Youth Ministers; a very important job that is chronically underpaid so that even the most dedicated will tend to be driven from it out of necessity. 

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I have no doubt most positions will be filled.  I also agree that the BSA may luck into some great people willing to work hard and stay on board with a low salary.

My concern is that generally you will not see consistent strong long term employees if you cut pay and benefits.  My wife’s food pantry is prime example.  They found a guy.  He isn’t innovative, sometimes misses deadlines, doesn’t fundraise well, etc.  However he shows up, the pantry functions and isn’t a drunk (all of which have been issues in the past).  They really want a better leader but cannot find one willing to work for just above minimum wage.   

Again, I know there are gems out there that would be great and would work for free, but long term this is not a great situation to ensure you can attract the top talent.

 

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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have no doubt most positions will be filled.  I also agree that the BSA may luck into some great people willing to work hard and stay on board with a low salary.

My concern is that generally you will not see consistent strong long term employees if you cut pay and benefits.  My wife’s food pantry is prime example.  They found a guy.  He isn’t innovative, sometimes misses deadlines, doesn’t fundraise well, etc.  However he shows up, the pantry functions and isn’t a drunk (all of which have been issues in the past).  They really want a better leader but cannot find one willing to work for just above minimum wage.   

Again, I know there are gems out there that would be great and would work for free, but long term this is not a great situation to ensure you can attract the top talent.

 

I use to run a non-profit (don't ask) and it is true...if someone believes in the mission you can some great folks...for a while. But eventually realities like spouses, kids, retirement make them start looking however reluctantly. Occasionally you can luck put and get someone who doesn't need the money as much. I always found it cheaper to give a couple nice benefits (as well as freedom) than straight salary. Even a minimal pension can seem pretty attractive these days.

Regardless as folks said earlier I will not be surprised if in a few years we will start reading about BSA's 'looming financial crisis'. In the interim all the proposed cuts will be spun as "right-sizing" and "streaming delivery". For me the only real question is who will cry uncle first BSA or GSUSA? Some sort of Scouting program will survive in the U.S.; it is just too good an idea. 

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On 1/9/2018 at 12:50 AM, TAHAWK said:

Our council already has been unable for months to fill  the council ToO, even as it tells us we are about to play upset the basket again with a drastic reorganization that eliminates districts in favor of service  "pods" -- a plan which requires a significant  increase in "professional" employees over the current ToO. 

 

 

 

 

I know this is off-topic, but what can you tell us about these service pods?

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2 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I think DE's are like many church Youth Ministers; a very important job that is chronically underpaid so that even the most dedicated will tend to be driven from it out of necessity. 

While my wife's threat of divorce after 6 weeks of marriage was what finally took the blinders off my eyes, I can tell you I could not support a family on a DE's salary. Fine and dandy when single. But no way i could support my family.

 

And one thing to think about is the hours. DEs are on call 24/7. Yes I had calls as early as 4:30 AM and as late as 12:30 AM. My volunteers gave me the best wedding gift: they would not disturb me between 10PM and 6AM for the first year of marriage.

Job is stressful. I've seen folks have nervous breakdown. I know folks who got ulcers and other medical conditions.

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Eagle94A-1, I don't want to make you re-live the pain, but I would be curious to hear what someone thought was so urgent that it required calling you at 4:30 a.m.

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52 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

While my wife's threat of divorce after 6 weeks of marriage was what finally took the blinders off my eyes, I can tell you I could not support a family on a DE's salary. Fine and dandy when single. But no way i could support my family.

 

And one thing to think about is the hours. DEs are on call 24/7. Yes I had calls as early as 4:30 AM and as late as 12:30 AM. My volunteers gave me the best wedding gift: they would not disturb me between 10PM and 6AM for the first year of marriage.

Job is stressful. I've seen folks have nervous breakdown. I know folks who got ulcers and other medical conditions.

You'd be better off being a garbage man in my town. You'd get full benefits, a little better pay, tremendous muscles, and you'd be home by 4pm. 

5 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Eagle94A-1, I don't want to make you re-live the pain, but I would be curious to hear what someone thought was so urgent that it required calling you at 4:30 a.m.

"Choppers, Colonel! I hear Choppers!"

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Since retiring I have taken on a "part time job" with a non-profit that pays nothing but does cover all training and expenses.  That perk alone has moved me from one-on-one with the clients in the office to chapter leadership, regional leadership and district leadership positions.  All in two years.  As one can easily tell, it's not Scouting.

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12 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Since retiring I have taken on a "part time job" with a non-profit that pays nothing but does cover all training and expenses.  That perk alone has moved me from one-on-one with the clients in the office to chapter leadership, regional leadership and district leadership positions.  All in two years.  As one can easily tell, it's not Scouting.

My non-profit was based at a university so while most of my employs were too part-time to get any benefits we would send them to all the training, seminars, and audit classes they could handle. That included accommodations, travel, and a modest per diem. And if they were working on a thesis or PhD we would let them have off hours access to our tech toys and give them thesis/PhD support. That (and the fact it was a place doing meaningful work while having fun) let me hang onto a lot of folks for a while. I even stopped the office supply closet and just gave everyone a cash amount to buy what they wanted...I actually spent 75% what I used to...they were more careful shoppers. 

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32 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Eagle94A-1, I don't want to make you re-live the pain, but I would be curious to hear what someone thought was so urgent that it required calling you at 4:30 a.m.

A youth protection issue.  That was legit. The 12:30 AM call was not. It was a CM vs CC issue that definately could have waited.

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2 hours ago, Saltface said:

I know this is off-topic, but what can you tell us about these service pods?

A given group of units, from a given area, served by a "team" of volunteers who are managed by "professionals."  A "district" by a different name that expressly puts leadership authority in the hands of council employees.  "Change"  Evades BSA model council organization, including many articles in Bylaws.

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On 1/10/2018 at 6:40 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

A youth protection issue.  That was legit. The 12:30 AM call was not. It was a CM vs CC issue that definately could have waited.

As a former pro myself, thankfully in my years I never received the urgent late night calls however did receive the ‘non real issue’ early 5am call on my cell. I cringe remembering those days. I think the call was about a patch...!

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