News flashhh...Meeting cancelled for Sunday

[Stosh]

This is simply not true.

 

Everyone in a unit serves at the pleasure of the Chartered Organization. The IH and COR have the authority to remove any person, youth or adult, from any position at any time.

 

The definition of a totally adult-run program?  If not, about as close as one can get.

 

I don't agree with you that youth know things better than adults.

 

But this confirms it.

[Stosh]

One has to remember that the scout is the purchaser of the service provided and the customer is always right.  Otherwise they will purchase service from one's competitors.  This is something BSA simply chooses to ignore and the statistics show it.

[David CO]

The role of the Chartered Organization is to own the unit, to appoint the unit leadership, to approve the unit membership, and to provide oversight and support for the unit's program and activities.

 

Providing oversight is not the same as running the unit.

 

Unit leaders may not see it, and may not even be aware of it, but the IH/COR do attend meetings where we learn about and discuss the proper role of the Chartered Organization.

Edited July 25, 2016 by David CO

[Stosh]

Not in all units.  My CO wants nothing to do with the operation of the units it CO's.  One of my new adults is the COR.

[Eagle94-A1]

_{I don't agree with you that youth know things better than adults.}

 

_{Scouting is a game for boys, and I agree that we adults should step back and let the boys play their game.  We adults are a little bit too old to be playing a boy's game, aren't we?}

 

_{We should not forget, however, that this game is adult owned and adult supervised.}  

 

_{I have spent a lifetime teaching kids.  I can tell you from experience that kids are generally not wiser or more competent than adults.  They're still learning.}

 

_{We do occasionally do see a very gifted child who can outshine his teachers, but this is the exception, not the rule.}

 

_{I beg to differ. School and Scouting are two different animals. You cannot compare the two based upon my experiences as an educator and as a Scouter. School is regimented, disciplined, and has a hierarchy to instill knowledge. Scouting, especially old school Scouting as envisioned by BP, is a thing of self-learning. The Scouts do things on their own with SMs to guide and mentor, not supervise. You go to other countries, and Scouts will camp as patrols on their own without any adults present.  In the US, that is no longer the case since about 4 years ago.} 

 

_{In my 34 years in Scouting, the youth had a better understanding of each others' capabilities than the adults. When adults influence elections, appoint leaders, create patrols, ad nauseum it creates problems.  I'm experiencing that right now as some of the leaders have decided to create patrols, set ridiculous requirements for various leadership positions, etc. The Scouts are not happy with the adult over-involvement, and it is showing: no patrol spirit, no desire to camp or attend meetings, etc. The youth feel they have no ownership in the troop, and it is starting to show. And I've seen this in every single troop that has too much adult involvement. I'm hoping with the new SM, things will improve.}

 

_{The troop that my pack's CO's has is very much adult led: APLs, PLs, SPL, etc are all appointed; adults create the calendar without any input from the youth, etc. Currently they are dying as folks are either aging out, or earning Eagle and quitting. The youth have no ownership in the unit, and it shows.}

 

_{And while a CO does have every right to approve, or disapprove, unit leadership and membership, if a CO was to remove a SPL without the APPEARANCE (emphasis) of a good reason to all of the youth in a unit, you can bet the other Scouts will take notice, and it will lower morale, patrol and troop spirit, etc. Unilaterally removing a youth because they are not doing a good job, because of the relationship with the SM, etc are not good reasons IMHO. Scouts will have that in the back of their minds.}

_.

[David CO]

Not in all units.  My CO wants nothing to do with the operation of the units it CO's.  One of my new adults is the COR.

 

I strongly suspect that this is also true of Zuzy son's unit.  The CO's lack of involvement and oversight may be at the very core of the problems in this unit.

[Stosh]

I strongly suspect that this is also true of Zuzy son's unit.  The CO's lack of involvement and oversight may be at the very core of the problems in this unit.

 

Not necessarily.  A religious CO may have a problem with a pastor that threatens the welfare of the organization and have totally no interest in knowing what's going on with any of their individual program directors.  Unless it's threatening the welfare of the CO, I would suspect they really don't care.  They might dump the SM as fast as they dump the Sunday School director if what is going on is viewed poorly by the community around them, but other than that, I doubt whether the subject of the BSA charter is addressed at any CO's governing board.  They are a mere entry in the CO's budget to cover the cost of chartering each year in 99% of most cases.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

In helping with rechartering last time, it was clear that a number of COs regard their role as being solely a supplier of a meeting place.  We were told that a couple of CORs of record simply refused to sign the recharter papers (perhaps having actually read them).