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Another Reason Why Adults Should Not Do What The Scouts Can Do Themselves

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Never heard that. Where is that stated?


We don't do a single SMC and BOR for those ranks for the obvious problems you ran in to.


INTERESTING.  I just looked that topic up in the G2A and it has been changed. Back in the 1990, just after they removed the time requirements for T-2-1, I sat on 3 BORs for the same Scout in one nite.  When talking about this, unit found out A) 1 BOR for multile ranks allowed and 2) no more youth on BORs.  That policy, 1 BOR for multiple ranks must have changed recently.I remember 7 or 8 years ago sitting on one multiple rnake BORs on the district level (SCOUTREACH unit and DAC didn't want to penalize the Scouts for their committee member's lack of invovlement)


GOOD. I can put an end to multiple ranks in one BOR.



But he should review the requirements and the dates in the book as part of the process.


Clearly. Hopefully this was a learning experience for him. 


YES it was. He was already looking to spread the duties, and this gave him impetus to get someone else doing advancement.

If it were my Scout we'd hold off on his advancement until he "tested out" of those things signed off by mom. I would not want this kid going to another unit as an example of what we produce unless he met the standards all other Scouts in out unit have met.


Unfortunately he already received the patch. Otheine of the challenges with this Scout is attendance. He does not attend everything due to the custody situation.


HOWEVER, since he is leaving at the end of the month, maybe he should have a meeting focused on advancement while the rest of the troop is electing a new SPL, and the new patrols are electing PLs?


Yup. Right hand, left hand issue.


We went to SMCs twice a month with BORs are month's end. We do go outside this schedule if the number of rank advancements gets too high or if we need to make sure the Scouts are not waiting too long for their rank.


At the moment, we only have 4 MCs, and they are extremely set in their ways. Trying to do away with the BOR box was an interesting experience I'm told. But the troop is growing; in 2013 there were 8-10 Scouts (1 patrol), 2014 16-18 Scouts (2 patrols) and last year 26 Scouts ( 3 patrols). And there is the potential to get anywhere from 14-23 new Scouts come December. The SM and ASMs are adapting, now the committee needs to adapt.

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@@Eagle94-A1, I always find the changes to requirements and such interesting. I recall the "all at once" SMCs you described but, like you, I could have sworn those were done away with soon after. What a mess those were.


Sounds like you have your work cut out for you, but also sounds like the SM is beginning to be receptive to change. That is always a good thing.

Edited by Krampus

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Compromise is that the Scout signing off has to show competency in the skill being taught and signed off. ALSO whatever skills being taught won't be signed off until used on a camp out. I'm good with that.


Sounds a bit like adding to the requirement yet.  But it is a step in the right direction.


On the other hand, one must be very careful in this transition process to make sure the PL's don't get the message that they can't be trusted in their judgment.  I don't have anyone other than PL's signing off on advancement.... any advancement except Eagle.


PL knows nothing about compass, but one of his boys works with an Instructor and the boy gets trained in the compass requirement.  The Instructor notifies the PL that he has passed the skill and the PL signs off on it trusting in the functionality of the Instructor.


PL has a Star scout in his patrol and the PL is 2nd Class Scout.  He reviews the MB's, the POR work of the Star scout, does what he thinks is necessary for him to have done on all the requirements before going to the SM for the SMC.   Managers make sure the work gets done, leaders make sure the people are cared for and are ready.


I would have no problem with a 2nd Class PL signing off on a Life Scout's requirement when he shows his PL the blue cards to prove it.  Documents his POR responsibilities of the past 6 months, etc.  Why does that take an adult to do that?  Heck, a functional Tenderfoot PL can read the book and determine whether or not this Scout has met the requirements or not.  If not he can discuss it with his APL and if they still don't understand, (it might be the first time he's had to deal with it) he and the APL can go to the SPL or SM for assistance and suggestions on how to handle it.


It is always remarkable that every time an adult refuses to relinquish control of a situation it boldly announces to the boys that they aren't trusted.  Might as well cut to the chase and never sign off on Scout Spirit because until they turn a certain age, they are not TRUSTWORTY Scouts.  None of them deserve to be FC Scouts under those assumptions.


And having to take the training and then proving it to adults at a campout is just another way of saying the Scouts aren't trustworthy.

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Yes, it's not what I wanted, youth signing off on S-T-2-1 with no reservation, nor what several of the other adults wanted, adults only signing off. But is a definate step int he right direction.  I can understand why training the youth would be important. I remember the first time I was given the authority to sign off on advancement, and IT BLEW MY MIND! (emphasis). I asked my SPL for some help, and got it.  But it wasn't a big deal with the troop because Scouts routinely signed off on stuff. Plus one leader doesn't want a repeat of his days in Scouting, when the authority to sign off was abused by the Scouts, if his stories are to be believed.


Since this will be a new concept for the Scouts, since we do not want it to be "give me's", and since we do not want the authority to be abused, I'm good with training them first before singing off. In fact I think the training should be about 15 minutes or less.


As for showing proficiency before signing off, I'm good with it because the Scouts should have 'mastered the skill." And just because they cannot do the skill when asked, doens't mean they can never teach the skill. Let them practice and work on it. I'll give you an example


2 years ago we did first aid at the lock in. Since I was put in charge of it, I assigned Scouts to teach the various skills that corresponded to their rank. My expectation was they have the rank, they can do the skill, they can teach it.  Did they need to go over and review, yes. Did I have to teach some of the changes in first aid, yes. did they take it seriously and do a good job. Yes they did.


As for signing off on camp outs, the rationale for that is because the skills they will be learning should correspond to the camp out that month. Having the PLs sign off on the advancement after seeing them use the skills outside of a meeting would shoe they truly mastered the skill.

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You have made a step in the right direction.


I just limit the signing to the PL's.  One person in charge of their patrol is in control of taking care of advancement for any and all boys in the patrol.  As I mentioned, Instructors do NOT sign off on advancement, only notify the PL the instruction was done.  It's up to the PL to test and eventually sign.  Adults teaching something also is dealt with in the same manner.  Adults do not sign off, the PL does after the adult reports to him.  If someone other than the PL has signed off on a scout's advancement record, this should run up a major red flag for the PL and the SM when it comes time for the SMC and BOR.

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... one leader doesn't want a repeat of his days in Scouting, when the authority to sign off was abused by the Scouts, if his stories are to be believed. ...

Because, really, it's so much better when adults abuse authority. But, that never happens. Oh, wait, it just did! :mad:


When we merged troops the young (and very conscientious) SPL asked me to sit in on a scout demonstrating a requirement. Scout did.

I handed his book to the SPL and said, "Well done. You may sign it."

The poor lad gave me a dumbfounded look and said "But, we aren't allowed to sign advancement."

I said, "Well, looks like you just merged with the wrong troop!"


I then assured him that he could sign the book, and I would inform the SM.


The man already knew ahead of time how I'd be operating. He had taken the reigns from the boys after the PLs were abusing sign-offs the previous year. But with the troop doubling in size, he could barely manage the flood of boys coming to him for signatures, meanwhile his older boys (and ours) were needing some time from him in terms of SM conferences. He was ready to find a new normal.

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"2) They learned to Jump in and get it done before some interfering adult comes and makes thing worse."


In Mr. Smith's Advice to the New PL, that came out. "They are always watching for an excuse to "help."  Don't give them an excuse. Stay on top of things."

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