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lepzid

Adult Leader App Rejected And Placed In Ineligible Volunteer File

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I don't think national has the right to dictate to any CO who they can or cannot associate with.

 

Who's to say that this person is not the congregation president of the CO and BSA just told them to dump him/her.

 

That would take a bit of splainin' to cover up that mess.

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I don't think national has the right to dictate to any CO who they can or cannot associate with.

 

Who's to say that this person is not the congregation president of the CO and BSA just told them to dump him/her.

 

That would take a bit of splainin' to cover up that mess.

As far as which adults from the CO can associate (volunteer) with scouts, I think National and Council can dictate as per Charter Agreement

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-182WB.pdf

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This is a particularly touchy subject for me, the DUI thing. If National doesn't care about DUI but they DO care about check fraud, I have a big problem with National's decision. To me they have it completely backward.

As for your question about where to draw the line, I don't know. I doubt that anyone else here does either. My guess (worth the paper it's written on) is that "sever all ties" means no training, no leadership. That's all.

We don't agree on much but here we do. We will refuse any adult the privilege to drive scouts if they have a DUI. We ask they disclose and we do our own check at the CO level. No one with a wreck less driving or DUI can drive our scouts, period. Any accident or judgement against a driver also puts them out. Small stuff and minor accidents or violations are okay. Stuff happens. If not at fault also not a problem. Otherwise, no driving.

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As far as which adults from the CO can associate (volunteer) with scouts, I think National and Council can dictate as per Charter Agreement

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-182WB.pdf

 

This is my biggest concern.  From my understanding, all adults on a trip are supposed to be listed on the Tour Permit filed with Council, so the applicants name would appear on official paperwork.  I want to make sure that the applicant is eligible to stick around after being placed on an Ineligible Volunteer File.

 

The BSA is a voluntary membership program and you are granted the privilege of being involved, no one has a right to join or be included in any way.  Even as it says "parents can view all activities" that really only based on the fact that your child was accepted into the BSA.  I also believe National and Council has every right to dictate with whom a CO or Committee Chair decides, as the adult application goes UP to National and Council for their approval AFTER our approval.

 

We don't agree on much but here we do. We will refuse any adult the privilege to drive scouts if they have a DUI. We ask they disclose and we do our own check at the CO level. No one with a wreck less driving or DUI can drive our scouts, period. Any accident or judgement against a driver also puts them out. Small stuff and minor accidents or violations are okay. Stuff happens. If not at fault also not a problem. Otherwise, no driving.

 

Understood and I respect that decision and your Troop has the option to do that.  Who's to say though that the person should continuted to be punished a decade after they were legally punished?  How about anyone who's ever, even while driving solo, exceeded the speed limit? Isn't that a dangerous action that is poor judgement? Not real interested in furthering this line of topic, just thoughts I wanted to share and I digress.

 

 

The one really key thing to do is to not gossip about this and humiliate the parent.

 

Only the Scoutmaster, Troop Committee Chair and myself are aware of the status.  We are a well run Troop with 13 Registered Committee Members and 26 (all filled) non-Committee volunteer positions.  This forum is a preliminary research vehicle and it will be discussed with Council for actual ruling on the conflict at hand.  If Council and National say "No ties, no attendance" then so be it, the applicant can appeal.  If Council and National say "No official registration, attendance on weekend trips is fine" then it will go to our Committee for discussion and ruling at Troop level.

 

Thanks again for all the input and advice.

Edited by lepzid

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This is a particularly touchy subject for me, the DUI thing. If National doesn't care about DUI but they DO care about check fraud, I have a big problem with National's decision. To me they have it completely backward.

As for your question about where to draw the line, I don't know. I doubt that anyone else here does either. My guess (worth the paper it's written on) is that "sever all ties" means no training, no leadership. That's all.

For me it's all about context. A single DUI from 20 years ago is not a big deal for me. A string of recent ones? That is a huge deal.

 

I remember in college, a classmate of mine got a DUI for sitting on a bicycle in his own driveway while a bit dunk. A couple of of his "buddies" had a real mouths on them, so the cops (he later told me they were there for a noise complaint - weekend party) decided to arrest basically everyone they could come up with an excuse for. I watched the incident from across the street (I was walking by, recognized my classmates and was about the cross the street to say hello when the police pulled up). I watched them pull him off the stationary bicycle and start to give him a sobriety test. That was when the police told me (and several other onlookers) to leave, so I did. The next week in class he told me they gave him a DUI. The real moral of the story? "Don't party with stupid people" and "be polite to the police".

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For me it's all about context. A single DUI from 20 years ago is not a big deal for me. A string of recent ones? That is a huge deal.

 

I remember in college, a classmate of mine got a DUI for sitting on a bicycle in his own driveway while a bit dunk. A couple of of his "buddies" had a real mouths on them, so the cops (he later told me they were there for a noise complaint - weekend party) decided to arrest basically everyone they could come up with an excuse for. I watched the incident from across the street (I was walking by, recognized my classmates and was about the cross the street to say hello when the police pulled up). I watched them pull him off the stationary bicycle and start to give him a sobriety test. That was when the police told me (and several other onlookers) to leave, so I did. The next week in class he told me they gave him a DUI. The real moral of the story? "Don't party with stupid people" and "be polite to the police".

 

I would have to know (and I mean really know, personally) that person before I would cut any slack at all, even after 20 years. This one of the few absolutes I have in my life and some of you know the reason why. A drunk is a hand grenade with the pin pulled. The only question is when or where they'll 'go off' and whether or not people get hurt or killed. For me this is 'end of discussion'. For me, it means no leadership if I can possibly prevail with the CO, and so far, no friendship. I know it seems hard and unfair. But that's that as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by packsaddle
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Been through a DUI death. If the kids are in my care they won't get in a car with anyone who has a DUI or wreck less driving record. As stated above, I'd have to really know them to ease that restriction. It's my arse on the line if a kid doesn't make it back home, so frankly I don't care what other parents think.

 

Truth be told we've never had any parent complain about this policy. Having lost a scout to DUI a few years back (not his fault) the unit is VERY weary about this issue.

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Having had "a little" experience with BSA rejection, after reading thru the above, here is my take on the situation:

For reasons unknown, the parent has been bared by National Council from any official connection to BSA. He may not be a registered volunteer , leader or Scouter. It is up to him to pursue the matter to find out exactly why. It may take a lawyer's letter or other legal action to pry the reason loose, if that is what the person really wants. He may have some inkling of the real reason, or he may not. He may want to try and clear things , if he believes the reasons are false or not interpreted appropriately. Or he may want to "let sleeping dogs lie".
The Scout can still be a Scout, but this can lead to difficult situations. The parent can still attend activities as a parent. UNLESS>>>
The CO thru the COR and IH can request more information, that is their right as the final approver of contact with the Scout unit  as to Leaders, etc. They should, IMO, do so for closure and satisfaction. BSA ultimately, cannot tell a CO who they will or  will not allow to be a unit member or leader (see recent actions by the National Committee).
If the National BSA convinces the CO that their reasons for this ex-communication is valid and worthy of action, then the CO can also bare the person from contact with their Scouts.
All this is not to say there is any guarantee that BSA will (1) reveal to anyone what the reasoning is or (2) admit to any , shall we say, incorrectness (?) in the issue, or (3) correct anything that they admit to being incorrect, the first point of the Scout Law not withstanding.

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BSA ultimately, cannot tell a CO who they will or will not allow to be a unit member or leader (see recent actions by the National Committee).

 

Can you elaborate on what recent actions were taken by the National Committee in this regard? I thought that the council had to sign off on leader applications. Is that no longer the case?

 

Also, do they guarantee that they will not pull your charter, regardless of whom you allow in as leaders and youth? Because I can pretty easily imagine situations where the BSA would be well within their rights to say "You need to get that guy off your roster or we're going to cancel your charter." You're saying that they can't do this?

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Oak Tree:  Sorry for the confusion.  "Local option" is the thing I was referring to. Yes, there are National Standards that the Local Unit have to abide by, but they don't have to allow anyone that BSA says is OK.  What we have in this thread is finding out what, exactly, the National Standard is.

And, yes, National, or the local Council, can pull the charter of the unit for whatever reason they want.  Then, it is up to the CO to find out why.  In my experience, this has included: Didn't pay the fees, check for the fees bounced, didn't recharter in time,  didn't have everybody YP'd  in time, couldn't find enough suitable folks to fill in charter,  publicly noted that anyone could join the unit (that is ANYONE, without regard to race, faith, gender,  sexual preference, country of origin , or citizenship)  (this led to all kinds of bad press locally), 15 year old Webelos,  fraudulent information on application(s),  et al.    

And, vice versa, the CO can deny the unit charter they have held for (many, many)  years because:  They don't have the money, they don't like BSA's (perceived) recent attitude change,  BSA hasn't changed ENOUGH,  they want to use their own church youth program,  they can't find any new leaders,  the CO has closed down,  etc. 

 

C'est la vie....

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When in doubt, google.  Lots of information available:

 

BSA Webpage on Ineligible Volunteer Files

 

BSA President Perry Statement on Ineligible Volunteers

 

Units get to decide on volunteers, but so does National.  If National decides a volunteer is ineligible, he can observe only as a parent.  If you let him be a volunteer in your unit, and something happens, BSA will defend the chartered partner, but I'd bet dollars to donuts the Council will seek a new chartered partner for the unit in the coming year.

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"If National decides a volunteer is ineligible, he can observe only as a parent."

 

Where did you find this in policy or is this your opinion? 

 

This is the gist of the entire thread. Parents are allowed with YPT to attend weekend trips, are ineligible volunteers allowed to do the same?

 

 

 

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Reading the attached link above, the inelibible files only restrict application membership into the Scouting organization, it says nothing about restricting parents from attending any and all scout activities.  And no, they do not need YPT to attend any and all events with their child, only registered scouters are required to have YPT.

 

It is also interesting to note that they go to great lenghs to self-justify banning innocent people from membership.

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