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lepzid

Adult Leader App Rejected And Placed In Ineligible Volunteer File

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"Two-deep leadership on all outings is required.
A minimum of two registered
adult leaders, or one registered leader and a participating Scout’s parent or another
adult, are required for all trips and outings. One of these adults must be 21 years of

age or older"

 

No where does it say this other adult must be YPT trained or not on the ineligible list.  Doesn't even say they have to be a parent.  The ineligible list is only some legal tool to reduce the litigation possibility that may someday occur.  Thus declaring innocent people ineligible as an over-precaution is in National's opinion very much "scout-like" in respect to good citizenship.

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Hello,

 

I have an official update to the original question.  This answer is per The District Commissioner:

 

Ineligible Volunteers (those rejected by BSA application background checks to become registered with BSA) are NOT allowed to be active in Troop or BSA activities.

 

This means the applicant is not allowed to attend weekend trips or to be an unregistered volunteer in any BSA activities.  We were told that the applicant should follow the instructions per the rejection letter and to "sever all ties with the BSA" at this time. The only course of action for the rejected applicant is to file an appeal and plead their case.

 

We were told to expect in the near future that all volunteers will have to be registered with the BSA to participate in Troop activities.  In fact, our Unit Commissioner Chairperson (volunteer head of District) (member of another Troop) mentioned that they attended Summer Camp with unregistered parents and the Disctrict Commissioner (paid head of District) was not happy at all upon hearing that.

 

As I mentioned before, joining and participating in the BSA is a voluntary membership for the adult applicant.  It is not a right of the applicant to be able to join or bypass the decision of the BSA application process. As unsavory the language of the decision may be, it should now be considered FACT, that the BSA has the final determination on who is and can be registered and active with the BSA youth membership.

 

Thank you for all your input, opinions and attempts at answering this question.

 

At this point, this question is now considered solved: No means no.

Edited by lepzid

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Does that mean if the person is a parent they cannot attend any of the scouting activities their son does?  Or is this just another one of those "we haven't really thought it through" things they are notorious for?  Your son is an Eagle Scout, how come you're not in the picture with your son and his mom?

 

The rejection letter is also a rejection of the child as well.  But then that's nothing more than collateral damage.

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We were told to expect in the near future that all volunteers will have to be registered with the BSA to participate in Troop activities.  In fact, our Unit Commissioner Chairperson (volunteer head of District) (member of another Troop) mentioned that they attended Summer Camp with unregistered parents and the Disctrict Commissioner (paid head of District) was not happy at all upon hearing that.

 

As I mentioned before, joining and participating in the BSA is a voluntary membership for the adult applicant.  It is not a right of the applicant to be able to join or bypass the decision of the BSA application process. As unsavory the language of the decision may be, it should now be considered FACT, that the BSA has the final determination on who is and can be registered and active with the BSA youth membership.

 

Lepzid,

 

Thanks for the update.  

 

A couple thoughts on the these two paragraphs.  First, you may have the titles wrong for the folks your speaking of.  The top people in a District, often referred to as the Key 3, are two volunteers: the District Chairperson and the District Commissioner, the  third person, a BSA employee is a District Executive (DE) or District Director (DD).

 

Second, as to the person's unhappiness with unregistered parents, the policy Stosh quoted about unregistered parents on outings is decades old, any unhappiness this person may have is akin to someone who has an opinion about there being only one proper way to tie a shoe.  

 

As to the rumor that BSA may soon require everyone to be a registered volunteer, or that what you were told is the final word on participation, take both of those with a big grain of salt.  The folks you were talking to, especially if one of them was the DE, are at the very bottom of the BSA food chain.  DEs are the entry level scouting professional, they are often 20 somethings fairly fresh out of college.  A District Commissioner or District Chairperson are usually more veteran volunteer scouters, but Districts do not have much real decision making authority in BSA.  The relationship between your unit and BSA does not pass through the District, it's a direct relationship between your Chartering Org and the Council.  Your District folks probably are no better plugged into the BSA rumor pipeline, nor would they have any more insight into future policy changes, than many folks on these forums.

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We were told to expect in the near future that all volunteers will have to be registered with the BSA to participate in Troop activities. 

 

We do this now. To attend any event adults need to be registered and YPT-trained. Never had a single person complain.

 

As to the rumor that BSA may soon require everyone to be a registered volunteer, or that what you were told is the final word on participation, take both of those with a big grain of salt.

 

The recent membership policy change puts BSA in a real predicament. They will need to 1) decrease their operational risk, and 2) find new revenue resources to make up for those going away. Requiring all adults to be registered will kill two birds with one stone. 

 

I would not be so sure that this is just opinion from his district or council. I heard the exact same thing while in Dallas last week attending a council discussion with several national representatives present. This very issue came up with the reply above being the statement from one of the national people in attendance and fielding questions.

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We do this now. To attend any event adults need to be registered and YPT-trained. Never had a single person complain.

 

 

The recent membership policy change puts BSA in a real predicament. They will need to 1) decrease their operational risk, and 2) find new revenue resources to make up for those going away. Requiring all adults to be registered will kill two birds with one stone. 

 

I would not be so sure that this is just opinion from his district or council. I heard the exact same thing while in Dallas last week attending a council discussion with several national representatives present. This very issue came up with the reply above being the statement from one of the national people in attendance and fielding questions.

We have everyone going on an outing take both BSA YPT and the Diocesan YPT, but we don't require registration.  

 

The rumor that YPT will "soon" be required has been tossed around for years.  It wouldn't surprise me if it comes true, but my district guys, all good friends of mine, have no more insight into that than I do.

 

It did occur to me that one way to increase membership (and fees) was to require that more adults be registered.  At the troop level that wouldn't be too hard to manage, at the Pack level it would be a very different story.

 

As to operational risk I don't know what that would mean.  Risk, if you're talking about exposure to legal claims, comes first and foremost from injuries; car accidents, burns from cooking, sliced fingers, water accidents etc.  Nothing about registration is going to move the needle on those risk/costs.  If you're talking about exposure to truly horrific stuff like molestation, I'm not sure what registration of everyone would do. As a matter of dollars and cents, I'm dubious that the marginal increase in background checks would actually result in picking up any more registered offenders than are spotted now.  The true predators, the Jerry Sanduskys, act like predators, they are stealthy and choose their victims carefully.

 

If a scout is molested --- last year, this year, next year, BSA and the Chartering Org are probably going to pay, whether the person would or would not have passed a background check is not going to affect that.  

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The rumor that YPT will "soon" be required has been tossed around for years.  It wouldn't surprise me if it comes true, but my district guys, all good friends of mine, have no more insight into that than I do.

I think you meant registration and not YPT. The latter is currently required for all adults coming in contact with scouts on events.

 

If you're talking about exposure to truly horrific stuff like molestation, I'm not sure what registration of everyone would do.

First, all adults would be screened by BSA as part of membership registration. People that might otherwise slip through the cracks will not be precluded from going on events. Second, unit leaders would no longer solely bear the risk of deciding who can/can't go on camp outs. This is the very reason our unit requires membership. Our leaders don't want to be personally liable if some unregistered adult turns out to be a convicted felon. 

 

The risk reduction would be in having the membership requirement sort of pre-screen anyone who is allowed around the kids and put the BSA approval on them. Right now the pool of people coming in to contact with scouts is not filtered. By filtering that group the risk is substantially reduced.

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I think you meant registration and not YPT. The latter is currently required for all adults coming in contact with scouts on events.

 

 

 

Respectfully BW, there is no rule requiring YPT for any adults outside of registered adults.  There is no requirement, at least no National requirement, that non registered adults on an outing be YPT.

 

If you have a cite, it'll be news.

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Respectfully BW, there is no rule requiring YPT for any adults outside of registered adults.  There is no requirement, at least no National requirement, that non registered adults on an outing be YPT.

 

If you have a cite, it'll be news.

 

It is not required nationally. I should have been more specific, it is required in my council.

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So your council requires all of the family night visitors at camp to be YPT trained? Do they check the cards at the gate?

 

If you have contact with our scouts you need YPT. Given it is a 30 min or less online commitment our folks don't blink. They have to do something similar in the schools just to visit campus so doing an online training course for scouts is no big deal.

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The official form letter from National dictates the individual "sever any relations".  And that's exactly what the individual is requested to do, regardless of who he/she is or what relationship he/she has to a member of the unit.

 

The text of the letter reads:

 

...We are therefore compelled to request that you sever any relations that you may have with the Boy Scouts Of America.

 

You should understand that BSA leadership registration is a privelege and is not automatically granted to everyone who applies.  We reserve the right to suspend registration whenever there is a concern that an individual may not measure up to the high standards of leadership which BSA seeks to provide for American youth.  Please also understand that this decision and the reasons for it will be maintained as confidential.

 

If you wish to have this decision reviewed, please write to me, explaining your version of the facts supporting your claim that your registration as a BSA leader should be granted or reinstated.

 

                                                                                                                        Sincerely Yours,

                                                                                                                         (Council/Regional/National office)

 

 

Now, this is something I pulled from my archives from the 1980s, but I do believe the wording would be similar today.  The packet was named "Standards of Leadership" and I believe the form letter was in "Appendix A".  My stuff ain't as well organized as it used to be. :)  Anyone have any updated info?  This is kind of hush-hush stuff, so I wasn't surprised to be unable to find a link to it.

Edited by frankpalazzi

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