OA and the aboriginal cultures

[desertrat77 1144]

6 minutes ago, David CO said:

 I wouldn't go so far as to say that OA is horrible, but it is disrespectful.

But if a specific Native American nation says "OA Lodge #X, you have our permission to use our ceremonies, dress, etc., and we'll work with you to ensure authenticity," and Lodge #X lives up to their end of the deal, how is that disrespectful?

[David CO 1784]

11 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

But if a specific Native American nation says "OA Lodge #X, you have our permission to use our ceremonies, dress, etc., and we'll work with you to ensure authenticity," and Lodge #X lives up to their end of the deal, how is that disrespectful?

I am finding it very difficult to carry on a conversation with you. You keep switching from general to specific and specific to general, depending on the point you want to make. In general, I think OA is disrespectful. There may be specific instances where they are not.

[desertrat77 1144]

15 minutes ago, David CO said:

I am finding it very difficult to carry on a conversation with you. You keep switching from general to specific and specific to general, depending on the point you want to make. In general, I think OA is disrespectful. There may be specific instances where they are not.

Okay, I'll be specific in this post.

How is the OA disrespectful when some Native American nations approve of certain OA lodges using their traditions, garb, and ceremonies? 

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by desertrat77

[Eagledad 2659]

I'll ask the same question that was asked during the gay scout debate, if everyone is living the Scout Law and Oath to the fullest, how can they be disrespectful?

Barry

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Silly @desertrat77, Native Americans are not sophisticated enough to know when their culture is being appropriated. So their approval is irrelevant; others must be offended on their behalf.

In fact the whole name of the organization is bad. Order of the Arrow? Arrows are sharp pointy things and an obvious slur on native americans, medes, saracens, and Tolkien elves. It is an honorary organization so name it the Order of the Garter once we start letting girls in. Should make the initiation ceremony a whole lot more interesting. 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Just now, Tampa Turtle said:

Silly @desertrat77, Native Americans are not sophisticated enough to know when their culture is being appropriated. So their approval is irrelevant; others must be offended on their behalf.

In fact the whole name of the organization is bad. Order of the Arrow? Arrows are sharp pointy things and an obvious slur on native americans, medes, saracens, and Tolkien elves. It is an honorary organization so name it the Order of the Garter once we start letting girls in. Should make the initiation ceremony a whole lot more interesting. 

I apologize for not capitalizing native americans, medes, saracens but capitalizing Tolkien. 

Apology not accepted.

[David CO 1784]

26 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

Okay, I'll be specific in this post.

How is the OA disrespectful when some Native American nations approve of certain OA lodges using their traditions, garb, and ceremonies? 

 

I will take you on your word that this actually happens. It is outside of my experience. I agree that it is possible for an OA group to be respectful.

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

"Now now I appropriated Norse Mythology and Literature. But that's OK because...well...because Oxford. And the movies turned out awesome" 

[Col. Flagg 909]

As a descendent of "North Men", I would have no problem renaming it to Order of the Axe, wearing furs and helmets (no horns though) and drinking Scout-approved mead.

I promise you I won't get offended...even if some guy shows up in horns.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Axe Men and Shield Maidens.

[Oldscout448 683]

18 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Axe Men and Shield Maidens.

FOR THE HORDE!!!

[Oldscout448 683]

18 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

As a descendent of "North Men", I would have no problem renaming it to Order of the Axe, wearing furs and helmets (no horns though) and drinking Scout-approved mead.

I promise you I won't get offended...even if some guy shows up in horns.

Does this mean I need to memorize Beowulf? 

Or learn old English? 

[HelpfulTracks 476]

How about appropriate Knights of the Round Table? Scouting started in England, kind of makes sense. Chivalric code and all.

From BP's Scouting for Boys

“In the old days the Knights were the real Scouts and their rules were very much like the Scout Law which we have now. The Knights considered their honor their most sacred possession. They would not do a dishonorable thing, such as telling a lie or stealing. They would rather die than do it. They were always ready to fight and to be killed in upholding their king, or their religion, or their honor. Each Knight had a small following of a squire and some men-at-arms, just as our Patrol Leader has his Second (or Assistant) and four or five Scouts. …  You Scouts cannot do better than follow the example of the Knights.”

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Not very american that.

[HelpfulTracks 476]

39 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Not very american that.

Nope, but apparently we are offending all of the Americans.

And since we already "appropriated" Scouting from the Brits I can't imagine they would be offended if we did so with the Knights of the Round Table.

But hey......... who knows.