Girl Scout Gold Award Square Knot

[mrjohns2 582]

6 hours ago, qwazse said:

ET Seaton (BSA’s exec in the 30s) was very upset that Juliet Gordon Low did not found the American organization using the name of its British counterpart “Girl Guides.”

From my coffee table book on the history of Girl Scouts (First Girl Scout: The Life of Juliette Gordon Low, by Ginger Wadsworth 2012), it says GSUSA was founded as Girl Guides in March of 1912, but quickly changed to GSUSA in 1913. It even talks of Girl Guide letterhead used in Jan 1913 first calling themselves Girl Scouts. They said in 1913 and a bit later, some still used the term. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

19 hours ago, qwazse said:

The boots on the ground simply didn’t care, Seaton desired to take action so that they would care. He sought Baden Powell’s support, which Powell refused to give. BSA relented. (https://www.jstor.org/stable/3346224).

THANK YOU FOR THE LINK! (yeah I'm shouting at ya. I could not find the article)

15 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

But while BSA didn't actually sue GSUSA then, the official well-regarded leader of the organization clearly didn't want any sisters in scouting.

Actually the sister Scouting organization was Camp Fire Girls of America.  Many of the same folks who were involved with BSA were also involved them.  Here is info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire_(organization)

 Sadly  @qwazse said it best

20 hours ago, qwazse said:

...“Adults ruin everything.”

 

[skeptic 997]

Two things.  Seton is how the name is spelled.  Please, if you choose to discuss the man and his family, please spell it correctly.  Second; yes Campfire was indirectly a sister to BSA through Dan Beard.  A while back, maybe almost ten years now, I was responded to by a Granddauter of Beard, clairifying the connection.  Tos some extent, people in that era intermingled with their attempts to create healthy and viable youth groups, even on occasion sharing camps and so on.  I wonder, other than clearer historical notes, how important it is, and if those that seem to waant to cast vague inuendo at times really care that those people, mostly male at the time, truly care or just like to stir pots.  Seton, not Seaton please.  

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by skeptic

[Mrjeff 248]

"Tos" and "want" and grammatical accuracy,  hmmmmm.............chritising spelling?  Is that really important and necessary? 

 

[SiouxRanger 491]

Don Letarmen’s Top Ten Responses…

10. I was texted by another granddaughter of Mr. Seeton and was told that E.T. couldn’t spell his own last name.  “He ‘phoned home’ to the wrong number. And, got bad advice.”

9.  Auto correct is a failed concept.

8.  What is the only sentence in the English language that cannot be written?  Try typing “There are three (and then phonetically, (to, too, two)’s in the English language.”

7. Roger does not complain that his name is spelled as “Mudd.”

6. Contestant:  “Who is Earnest Thompson Seeton?” Alex, “Correct-$200.”  (It’s an AUDIBLE-Hello!)

5. "NOOO!!! You don't have to call me Johnson! My name is Raymond J. Johnson Jr. Now you can call me Ray, or you can call me J, or you can call me Johnny, or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me Junie, or you can call me Junior; now you can call me Ray J, or you can call me RJ, or you can call me RJJ, or you can call me RJJ Jr. . . but you doesn't hasta call me Johnson!"

4. Is it Harry S. Truman, or Harry S Truman?

3. Who is, or are ( or now, were) Winston S. Churchill?

2. The “a” only makes a difference if the equation comes out as “e*a=m*c^2.

1.  What is “a” in the equation above? (And include a mailing address for your Nobel, please.)

And, how many Pharaohs CAN dance on the head of a pin? (Nobody cares. Well, but, sorry, it DOES depend on the size of the pin head. Now if the pin head is of Summarian origin, 4,000 B.C., copper, not nickel,…)

[skeptic 997]

While the levity is possibly warranted, it also reflects on a serious issue in our society, in my old guy view.  Spelling and grammar are important things, whether in these forums or in life.  In the case of Scouting history, it seems right that the name should be properly spelled, at least to me.  It reminds me a bit of the teacher that asked me why I circled mispelled words on a student's paper, even if the word was not related to the subject directly.  I told her that I felt education should extend beyond the lines and subject, and that spelling was an important skill in its own right, even if it had little or nothing to do with the subject.  I was not marking the student down, just drawing their attention to the importance, as I saw it.  Everybody has a viewpoint, and many obviously do not agree with me.  Their right.  Th anks for the couple chuckles too.  Interesting, as an aside, Seton did not settle on his name in print until years later, when he generally usedl Ernest Thompson Seton, or E. T. Seton.  Some of his early writing has Ernest Seto Thompson on it.  but the Seton was still spelled that way.  

[SiouxRanger 491]

A Philmont Ranger, during the height of discussions in HQ a long time ago about ghosts on Urraca Mesa, reportedly all in some way related to the "Blue Lights" reported seen there by "someone some time ago," told me, "I'm going to the DMZ Korea at the end of the Summer and will face real threats-I've no time to worry about trifles."

Now I struggle to spell Uraca, Uracca, Urracca, Urraca...

And does it matter?

The Mesa is still there.

Folks who claim to have seen Blue Lights, and connected them to ghosts, well, those tales are not erased.

"Gravity is just a theory," but as Prof. Stephen Jay Gould further noted, "The apple still falls."

And, however one spells "Seton," his accomplishments are written in the granite of history. And there they remain.

 

[SiouxRanger 491]

3 minutes ago, skeptic said:

While the levity is possibly warranted, it also reflects on a serious issue in our society, in my old guy view.  Spelling and grammar are important things, whether in these forums or in life.  In the case of Scouting history, it seems right that the name should be properly spelled, at least to me.  It reminds me a bit of the teacher that asked me why I circled mispelled words on a student's paper, even if the word was not related to the subject directly.  I told her that I felt education should extend beyond the lines and subject, and that spelling was an important skill in its own right, even if it had little or nothing to do with the subject.  I was not marking the student down, just drawing their attention to the importance, as I saw it.  Everybody has a viewpoint, and many obviously do not agree with me.  Their right.  Th anks for the couple chuckles too.  Interesting, as an aside, Seton did not settle on his name in print until years later, when he generally usedl Ernest Thompson Seton, or E. T. Seton.  Some of his early writing has Ernest Seto Thompson on it.  but the Seton was still spelled that way.  

I agree.

Auto correct (disconstruct) has laid waste to more than a few sentences of mine, and many others, and I have spent effort to double check, correct and edit.

And, just for the technical record, as a lawyer who has made nearly ZERO known typos (to me or mentioned to me) in 45 years (20 to 40? on nearly 1 million pages of work product at 300± words per page???) which have "escaped" the office, auto correct is a veritable minefield.

Homer nodded.

Chess Blindness.

In this environment, the BSA Survival Epoch, content is considerably more important than form.

[SiouxRanger 491]

17 minutes ago, skeptic said:

While the levity is possibly warranted, it also reflects on a serious issue in our society, in my old guy view.  Spelling and grammar are important things, whether in these forums or in life.  In the case of Scouting history, it seems right that the name should be properly spelled, at least to me.  It reminds me a bit of the teacher that asked me why I circled mispelled words on a student's paper, even if the word was not related to the subject directly.  I told her that I felt education should extend beyond the lines and subject, and that spelling was an important skill in its own right, even if it had little or nothing to do with the subject.  I was not marking the student down, just drawing their attention to the importance, as I saw it.  Everybody has a viewpoint, and many obviously do not agree with me.  Their right.  Th anks for the couple chuckles too.  Interesting, as an aside, Seton did not settle on his name in print until years later, when he generally usedl Ernest Thompson Seton, or E. T. Seton.  Some of his early writing has Ernest Seto Thompson on it.  but the Seton was still spelled that way.  

Well, is is one thing to note a misspelling.  And, not all misspellings are created equal, this is a misspelling based on a phonetic identicality, but really unnecessary to point it out twice.  Might be one thing were the misspelling intentional and intended to mean disrespect, but Seton does have a name which is amenable to several spellings (Seton, Seeton, Seaton) all of which are phonetically identical. The mistake is understandable, and, I have made it myself on a camp map, inadvertently reverting to the spelling of the last name of a realtor I was familiar with.

"Ask not for whom the spell checker comes, he comes for thee." John Donne.

 

[SiouxRanger 491]

And so,

As an SPL of a Junior Leader Training Troop, 1967 or so, I was told that I needed to know the names and tent assignments of every scout in the troop.  Such stress.  I got that job done.

And on Philmont Ranger Staff-we had to learn every Scout's name. And we did so.

And, so as a lawyer.  Names ARE IMPORTANT.  Everyone expects to be addressed by their first name.  As they should. And in legal documents, it is critical.  Seton's legacy will thrive or diminish, not on the occasional spelling of his name, but on his actions.

[SiouxRanger 491]

The point of my posts: I just don't care-these are pointless semantic discussions that add nothing to the forward-looking discussions of this forum.  A waste of time.  There are critically important things to discuss, expose, and understand.

Typos aren't it.

[SiouxRanger 491]

BSA has wasted somewhere in the nature of 2 Billion dollars.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

8 minutes ago, SiouxRanger said:

BSA has wasted somewhere in the nature of 2 Billion dollars.

And squandered the respect of much of the nation...

[skeptic 997]

I accept that this particular issue is not huge, but again, in respect to the history of Scouting, proper name spelling "should" be important.  But, I believe grammar and spelling, espeically names of important people should be of import.  At the same time, if it does not concern you, that is your right and in my view, maybe your loss as well  On this forum, those that mostly criticize me are the same, and I can almost predict that response.  Look past me as someone you may not feel is worth noting, but do not look past the youth who needs to see that care in writing, or speeech is important to their character and success.  JMHO of course.  Carry on, and maybe work on pushing the mostly positive side of Scouting.  Surely our sick society could use that.  

[SiouxRanger 491]

On 7/27/2023 at 12:46 PM, KublaiKen said:

I can't even envision a scenario where I ask a girl to take her Gold Award off her BSA uniform.

And so, I'll just jump in to the discussion of a female wearing a Gold Award on her BSA uniform.  (And I've posted with respect to other topics following this in the same thread, so I am "backing up" a bit.)

Once one earns a patch and it is awarded to you, it is YOURS.  You can wear it according to provisions of the organization that awarded it to you, throw it way, glue it to your windshield, give it to a younger sibling.  Feed it to a pet.

It is yours to do with as you like.

So a young lady earns Girl Scouting's highest rank, and us BSA folks presume to tell her to remove it from her BSA uniform.

Can anyone explain to me the merit in discouraging a youth to DENY their accomplishment by compelling the youth to remove a badge of their highest rank from another organization?

"Yeah, we know you've earned THREE OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALS, but our organization's Rabid Rodent Medal dictates that Olympic Gold Medals are verboten.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by SiouxRanger
Just a "d" and delete non