Scoutfish 16 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Your COR is authority representative of whoever your charter organazation is. The COR can remove you or your SM. The COR can go to council and basically say" Don't bite the hand that feeds you lest the hand stops feeding you and you starve." Most CORs are pretty nice guys, but they (if the have the backbone) be heavy leaners when the time comes. But back to denial of permits: Here's the thing: You know what training you have. I don't. I kn0w what I have. You do not. The SE or DE only knows what is on paper. If the paper says you don't have it, then as far as the SE or DE is concerned...you don't. And let's face it...This world is full of people who say they have this or that or are trained in, experienced in, or familair in "X" when in fact, they have no clue because they are not trained or experienced. They may think they know what they are doing, but that's not quite good enough for BSA - and I don't blame BSA for that. Think about it. Suppose a member of your uunit wanted to take the boys camping and according to your paperwork and to the best of your knowledge...has no training or at least, not the right training for the activity in question. Do you just believe him? Remember, the SE or DE talkes not only to you, but alot of folks. Some names mean nothing, some faces are that of total strangers. He is not intimately familiar with you as other members of your unit. Therefore, it is his/her job to deny that permit for the safety of the boys and yes..even avoid potential lawsuits As far as fundraising, it could be the smallest detail or even a misunderstanding of what it is that you plan to do. Does it conflict with FOS or whatever your council does to raise money? Does it happen just before or during council fundraising. Is it something that could be questionable ( raffles, gambling, kids in potential physical danger ) ? I mean, it sounds like the guy is a jerk, but you do have to look at it from the office side of things too. Everybody thinks their parents are unfair and sooo not cool..until they become parents themselves. Everybody knows the boss or supervisor is jerk untuil they get promoted to that job and realize there are bigger things to the picture. Link to post Share on other sites
CalicoPenn 729 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Are you sure it's the Scout (Council) Executive and not the District Executive? Most Scout Executives have too much to do to be bothered with driving to camp to see someone's tour permit. It would be pretty unusual for someone to make their way up to Scout Executive if they have the attitude you've described. If it is the District Executive, then the Institutional Head making a phone call to the Scout Executive to politely inquire why the District Executive is targeting the Troop his organization is chartering should be enough to get the DE pulled into the SE's office and told to knock it off. If it is truly the Scout Executive, then a call by the Parish Priest to the Council Relationships Chair politely asking why the Scout Executive is targeting the Troop his Parish is sponsoring and "innocently" asking if this is something he's going to have to take up with the Archdiocese will surely get the attention of the Council President. In the meantime, file the tour permits and fundraising permits - if they're denied, do the trips/fundraisers anyway. The unit might not get to use the Council's camp, but they can't really stop you from going to state parks. And they can't walk into your fundraiser demanding that you cease and desist. If the permits are denied, send a copy of the denied permits to National with a note stating that Council has denied these for no good reason, and that you are bypassing Council and filing them with National - and that you will continue to file them with National until their rogue Council is brought back under control. Finally, if the Charter is denied without proper justification, then the Parish Priest is simply going to have to be asked to go to the person at the Archdiocese who deals with relationships with the Boy Scouts and ask him to get involved. Once call from an organization that sponsors a good number of units through their Parish can really shake up the organization. And since I'm not adverse to playing hardball if nothing improves, a call to the Council warning them that the media may be contacting them to ask why the BSA is now discriminating against Catholics (I'm assuming Catholicism based on the use of parish) is something I'd be holding in my back pocket as my trump card. Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutfish 16 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 You also know that there is the way things are "supposed to work" and how they "really do work". I have no idea who is "supposed" to approve our permits, but I know who gets them and who sends us an e-mail approval and copies of te permit. Our Concil registrar/ admin asst does. But to clarify something, of the 12 people in the scout office at any given time, she is the one who pretty much can help you with your needs, questions, services and gets the ball rolloing on things. She is also part of a troop.a crew, and a ship and used to be in cubs. She has seen it, done it, breathed it and lived it. She is a matter of fact person who uis attuned to the "real worldz" and is very nice, but can play hard ball when need be. When she retires, I see things getting overly complicated and a whole lot slower and agonizing at Council. Link to post Share on other sites
lilizard62 10 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Scoutfish.....We have filled out the necessary permits for our fundraisers. I have all the training information for all our Leaders. As of December...all our Leaders have the training that is required under the "Umbrella of Scouting". We are doing what we need too. Thanks to the great advice and knowledge from this forum. I will discuss with the Troop Committee about getting our Charter Rep involved in our problems. I didn't realize how much power he has. I hear what some of you are say about being the problem. I understand. Link to post Share on other sites
lilizard62 10 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Calico Pen ........Our DE is a great guy and very helpful. It is not our DE. I will start with our Committee Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 As 'Fish stated, the COR can do the hiring and firing of unit leaders. BUT they also are members of the district committee, with full voting powers. Ditto teh council committee as they can got to council exec meetings and vote. Link to post Share on other sites
lilizard62 10 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Eagle....Good place to start.... Council meetings... You mean....What do you mean? Vote on what? Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Your COR is the place to start if you are having problems with the SE. Your COR should stick with discussing the problems with the volunteers first. Get your district chair involved. Get your district commissioner involved. Your unit should not have to put up with a bully SE. Go as high as the counicl president (a volunteer). Again the COR is your unit's voice in these types of matters. You wouldn't be part of a Florida council would you? Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Just like a Pack, and Troop have a unit committee that makes sure things are running well, so does your District, and your Council. And just like your unit committees have committee members who work together on the committee to get things done, so do the District, and Council committees. A COR is one of those District, and Council, committee members. They have "voting rights" on those committees. They have a say in how your District and Council is run. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but from your posts you have been with the BSA for 7+ years, thru your Scouts Cub years, are now trying to motivate your teen to finish his Eagle, you volunteer with your Troop, know your District Executive (DE), have taken all the training including Wood Badge, and you still do not know about PLCs, Charter Organizations, CORs, and how your District and Council are put together? Link to post Share on other sites
lilizard62 10 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 I know who My Charter Reps are Patrol Leaders Council I know them too. Charter Organization I know all of that. I just don't refer to them by their acronyms. Yes I have been in Scouting for 11 years. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm tempted to move this one to Council Relations. Anyone think that's a good idea? Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 lilizard62, Have you sat down and ever had a face to face meeting with this Scout Executive? Or are you going on what others have said? Ea. Link to post Share on other sites
lilizard62 10 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Yes. I have dealt with our Scout Ex. face to face Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 May I ask what your registered position in the Troop is? Are you an assistant Scoutmaster, Advancement Chair, Committee Chair, Committee Member, etc? Link to post Share on other sites
BadenP 93 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The more this story unfolds I think lilizard is either hiding some pertinent facts or more likely is just trolling for attention. Having been a former scouting professional and worked with a wide variety of SE's I find it hard to believe that any SE would be that petty or get that involved with one troop, they have way more important things to be concerned with on a council level. lilizard I wish you would either be more forthcoming with the truth, or give the entire story cuz what you have presented is just not logical. Link to post Share on other sites
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