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Xtreme

OA qualification requirements

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Sorry last sentences above should read 'the only 19yo female ASM I KNOW are also venturers." And they doa good gob too."

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Call me "old guard" if you will. I'll wear the tag with pride. But there ARE differences between men and women. One of the great benefits of Boy Scouts is that our boys have an opportunity to interact with adult leaders who are men of character.

 

Of course, we are all grateful that in recent years women have stepped up and taken on roles that men should be performing. Shame on the Dads who refuse to find time to support their sons troop. And those lazy, self absorbed men will gladly stand on the sidelines while the women step up.

 

Since we have accepted women as leaders in our Scout troops, it is only right that we accept them into our Order. But to consider extending membership to young women? I'm dead set against it. There are enough distractions for our young men outside of Scouting. Scouting is the one place they can focus on becoming men of character.

 

Yes, I am a dinosaur. I fondly remember the day when a Scout asking "Where's my Axe?" was looking to cut some firewood, not to smell good for a fellow Scout!

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I am of mixed mind on the issue.

 

On the one hand, it would be great to get some new energy into the Order, which some motivated Venturers could provide. Many of the Venturing youth leaders in my area are young women, and they'd make fantastic chapter and lodge officers. They'd bring a lot of great new ideas.

 

In addition, there is no similar honor organization that I know of within the Girl Scouts of the U.S.A., so this could provide an added boost to Venturing if marketed properly. The Corps of Discovery isn't oriented in that direction; if it were, I think that would be a great thing, but it's not. And finally, I can't come up with a good way to tell my daughter - eligible for Venturing in 10 years' time - that she can't join the organization from which I gained so much, simply because she's a girl.

 

On the other hand, opening it up to Venturers generally would require a rethinking of the OA's historic purpose as an honor camper society, as Venturing crews are not necessarily outdoor-oriented. However, that seems to be a moot point already with the slogan of "Scouting's Honor Society" that's come about since my time as a youth. (I disagree with that tack, but it's practically ancient history by now.) It would also require some changes to the logistics of conducting an Ordeal. But those aren't really objections, just observations, and certainly don't outweigh my initial thoughts.

 

Since I don't have a vote, however, I'll just sit back and watch.

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Narraticong,

 

I would respectfully disagree with several of your points.

 

Many families these days are single-parent households, and many are single mothers. I believe that those parents should have just as much an opportunity to get involved with their children's lives as parents of another gender. Adult association doesn't simply refer to men.

 

"There are enough distractions for our young men outside of Scouting. Scouting is the one place they can focus on becoming men of character."

 

Since Scouting includes Venturing, which is co-educational, I'd disagree with you. If Venturing and Boy Scouts were two completely separate programs, then I might agree with you. But there is a significant degree of overlap, if a Boy Scout wants there to be.

 

"Yes, I am a dinosaur. I fondly remember the day when a Scout asking "Where's my Axe?" was looking to cut some firewood, not to smell good for a fellow Scout!

 

LOL... OK, I've got to remember that one.

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Hello,

 

Shortridge said, "It would also require some changes to the logistics of conducting an Ordeal".

 

Can you explain what changes would be required? Since we already have women involved, how does an 18-20 year old woman change things?

 

Xtreme has asked about an 18-20 year old female ASM joining the Order. It does seem that a woman whose family has a history of Scouting involvement could join as an ASM at 18 years old. Not all 18-20 year old females will be a part of a Crew as there are some areas with no Crew nearby. According to the comments here, an 18-20 year old female ASM could not be a part of the OA.

 

It seems that Xtreme has identified the only person in a Troop that is not eligible for OA membership. Any boy has the opportunity to join after meeting the requirements, any male adult (18 and older) has the opportunity, any female 21 and older has the opportunity, but a female (18-20) who is a legitimate Adult Volunteer of a Troop is excluded.

 

Any more comments on this for Xtreme? Any more clarification?

 

Al

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"It seems that Xtreme has identified the only person in a Troop that is not eligible for OA membership. Any boy has the opportunity to join after meeting the requirements, any male adult (18 and older) has the opportunity, any female 21 and older has the opportunity, but a female (18-20) who is a legitimate Adult Volunteer of a Troop is excluded.

Any more comments on this for Xtreme? Any more clarification?"

 

Yes....

any adult male (18 and older) who has attained the rank of First Class has the opportunity.

You should rephrase that to be: Any ASM, between the ages of 18 and 21, who has attained First Class is eligible (assuming the requirements for camping and Scoutmaster's approval have been met).

BDPT00

 

 

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I'm thinking primarily of the male/female adult accompaniment and separate sleeping facilities rule for Venturing trips and outings.

 

Since this isn't a safeguarded forum, I'd prefer not to go into details about the inductions process. I hope it can suffice for me to say that there are times during the inductions process when small groups work and operate independently, often in remote areas of the camp. I would be curious about how those group activities would be affected.

 

In addition, there's the obvious addition of separate areas or times for showers and changing clothes. Granted, chapters and lodges already have to accomodate female leaders, but adding female Venturers would create yet another category... so you'd have adult men, adult women, young men, young women. That would force some logistical changes that the OA hasn't had to deal with before.

 

While I would hope that council camps would have experience dealing with those issues, since those facilities and programs are open to Venturing crews as well, the fact remains that quite a few were built in the pre-female leader period, and don't have adequate facilities to handle adult women at present, let alone young women.

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Any ASM, between the ages of 18 and 21, who has attained First Class is eligible (assuming the requirements for camping and Scoutmaster's approval have been met).

 

Wouldn't that also apply to members of the unit committee between ages 18 and 21?

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The only registered positions a "transitional" Scouter (my term) (18-21) may hold are:

 

- Assistant Scoutmaster

- Merit Badge Counselor.

 

ScoutNet should reject an app for an 18-20 YO person applying for a Committee slot

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"Wouldn't that also apply to members of the unit committee between ages 18 and 21?"

 

Actually, you can't be between the ages of 18 and 21 and be a member of the unit committee. Minimum age for unit committee membership is 21.

 

In fact, there are very few positions in the BSA open to those between the ages of 18 and 21:

 

* Venturer

* Assistant Scoutmaster or Assistant Varsity Team Coach

* uncertain of which Pack/Den positions are open to the 18-21 year old, and they would only be for assistant positions.

 

working for council/camp is one thing, but pretty much all volunteer positions in the council/district require you to be 21.

 

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I'm thinking that an 18 year old female ASM can not be in OA. While the age out for youth in Boy Scouts is 18, it is 21 for OA. She would still be considered a youth for OA purposes and would not meet the eligilibity requirements for youth.

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Do any of you find it odd that an 18 yr old ASM is considered an adult within the scouting program, but then would be denied access to the OA because then she would be a youth? Some of you have mentioned the fact that there are no facilities to accomidate youth females. But technically, in the boy scouts of america, once you are 18 you are an adult. So would it be such a big deal to share those female facilities with the 18-20 yr olds. Because normally, they are considered adult women through BSA and in the country, just not in the OA. I am not trying to create arguments, I am trying to understand and look at both points of view. In a sense it might seem confusing that in on area you are an adult, but on the other you are not. And like Al had mentioned, many females that are youth ASM might of not had the opportunity to be in a venturing crew. So growing up with the scouting program, reaching that 18 yr old make is the chance that they can finally be apart of the program, but not all of it.

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"But technically, in the boy scouts of america, once you are 18 you are an adult."

 

Not so.

 

In the OA AND in Venturing, you are still consider a youth until 21.

 

The 18-21 period has long been a gray area in our society. You can vote and join the army at 18, but can't drink until 21. In the BSA, only certain positions are available to the 18-21 year old.

 

 

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