OA Tapout & Ordeal

[Bob58]

Help! I'm not a member of OA (yet!) and just caught a call from my Scoutmaster because of my commissioner status.

Our unit leaders recently attended a summer camp orientation at which they were informed that provided we held eleections (with the supervision of our local lodge) our candiudate could undertake the Ordeal during camp this summer. We think its a great idea. The chosen will leave the campfire and not return to their units until the Ordeal is completed the next day.

When we contacted one of the people in our district who is very involved w/ OA. We were told the ordeal would be invalid since it was not conducted supervised ?)by our local lodge?

What's the scoop? Our guys are ready to give up some great activities this summer to become active in OA, all are prime eagle candidates and all three are active in several extracurriculars at school. We haven't broken the news yet that at least one advisor says, "our way or the highway". What can we actually do?

 

[evmori]

Check with National but I think you need your lodge's OK to the tapout if it is done out of your lodge. You didn't say where the camp was. Is it in your council? Did all the Scouts meet all the requirements to be tapped out?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Bob58]

The camp is not in our council. The candidates did meet the reqs.

Our council's lodge has approved the election and the boys being tapped out at camp (out of district) but is insisting that the ordeal must be conducted by our council lodge. This is only coming from one person -- the first one that we've talked to. But the boys are in the middle of setting their summer camp schedules and need to know if they can/should do the ordeal this summer.

[slontwovvy]

You need to get the permission of your lodge chief or lodge advisor in order to get anyone tapped out in another lodge. Even then, you cannot do your ordeal in that lodge nor be inducted by that lodge. You must do your ordeal and induction at a Spring or Fall Conference.

[slontwovvy]

At least that's my understanding of the situation. Check with your lodge chief or advisor or consult National for your status.

[k9gold-scout]

Our troop plans its events well in advance but our OA lodge dose not. We have only had elections in 2 of the last 5 years and the ordeal in one of those years was planed for a weekend when we had a backpacking trip. Our scouts choose to backpack. Of the last 10 eagle scouts in our troop, only 2 were OA .

[eagle90]

We attend a camp not in our own council. Our scouts who have been officially elected under our own lodge's supervision are allowed to be MENIONED during the camp's call out ceremony, but cannot be officially called out nor can they do their ordeal at the camp. They must be called out and do their ordeal at our own council's OA Fall fellowship.

[eisely]

It is my understanding that it is national OA policy that the ordeal must be done "within council." That is, the lodge responsible for the election must provide the ordeal and one cannot do one's ordeal in a summer camp or other event outside of one's own council. I have seen this done and it creates no end of problems. Your lodge advisor may be willing to go along with the idea of doing the ordeal at a different council's camp, but he (she) is not required to bless the arrangement. You should call the lodge advisor immediately. There is no harm in trying, but the answer will probably be that the boys must do their ordeals "in council."

[Bob58]

Thanks for all the input. We have passed the question up the ladder (Lodge chief and advisor) and haven't rec'd an answer yet. We're not interested in confrontation or overruling a group that our boys were interested in joining.

As noted we thought this was a great way to get them into the Lodge. Electing only one or two a year means that those who are active in other extracurricular activities will be eligible and they might not be allowed to become active if the can't make their ordeal on the date set by council.

If we get people involved maybe we'll try to work for change from within.

[Mike F]

Bob58,

 

Sorry for late reply. There's really a good reason for this rule -- it's important for your new members to make friends in their new lodge. One of my Ordeal-mates 30 years ago continues to be one of my best friends to this day.

Another question worth asking: "Are there any other Ordeal weekends planned in this Lodge within the next year?" (Note: Scouts/Scouters elected for OA membership have a year to complete their Ordeal.)

Your boys can't be the only ones with this problem. Most lodges have additional opportunities at Fall, Winter, or Spring conclaves.

[ASM1]

I am betting you have already resolved this issue because of today's late date in July, but we had almost the same situation happen last year. We attended summer camp out of council and lodge. At the OA call out, the SM and a few of the attending ASM's got together and decided to have a scout called out for OA because he was overlooked in our troop elections earlier that year. Here is how it worked, with the apporval of national. At the time though, we just made the decision, and worried about taking care of the legalities when we returned to council.(and this scout also attended his ordeal in the hosting council) After the call out, the SM, and the ASM's met with the Key 3 form the host lodge and got a letter to be given to our Key 3 requesting permission to admit the scout into the lodge after his ordeal. We checked with national, and it was legit, and he was accepted no problem. Best of luck.

[jacksowi]

As an OA Advisor, I just want to say that anyone wanting to have anything to do with the OA needs to learn about it from their local lodge/chapter. One of the things I'm starting in my own area is an informational briefing at our SM Specific Training events. It's not in the syllabus, but a voluntary extra session.

 

Troops can have callouts at out-of-council camps, but only after their lodge approves it and relays that approval to the camp. As another posting mentioned, they can only receive the ordeal at their own council/lodge setting.

 

On another note, reading the post from ASM1, I'm surprised that National would have okayed what happened. I understand that National would want to help out a scout whenever they can, but to have the SM and some ASM's decide that a scout should be called out because he was overlooked at his troop election is a clear violation of the basic tenet of OA membership; he was not elected by his peers/fellow scouts. That is the basis of the honor of being elected into the Order. If he was on the ballot and the scouts did not elect him, he was not overlooked. Perhaps they knew something the SM and ASM's didn't.

[ASM1]

The scout in question was overlook because his name was not on the ballot. He had been out of the country with his family who was serving in the military. He was overlooked becuae they forgot to add his name to the ballot. The scout in question is by far, one of our most talented leaders. We did the right thing, and national agreed. The Key 3 from the host lodge agreed, and our Key 3 agreed.

 

ASM1

[ASM1]

As for the original post, (topic leader) This is sometimes the problem with OA and why feelings for OA run so strong. Boy Scouts prohibits secret organizations, yet OA is that and more. So secret it seems that even the members do not know current policy.

 

As for my posts, knowing this, as well the SM and other ASM's at that summer camp, we, (all OA members) took the bull by the horns so to speak and just got it done. If we would have waited and asked, there would have been days of indecision, bad calls, wrong decisions, and only frustration would have remained.

 

According to national OA policy, once a scout performs his ordeal, he is OA for life. I performed mine in Michigan. Does that mean that now that I live in another state I am no longer OA? I don't think so.

 

As far as not being able to perform ordeal out of council, not so. It is extraordinary, but it happens. It has happened in our lodge more than a few times over the years.

 

Sometimes too secret to know what is what....

 

ASM1

[ArchWahl]

I find it hard to believe that Ordeal was held during a summer camp week in a summer camp that was in operation. Most lodges have a policy or even bylaw that requires Ordeal not to be held until after tap-out. This may be part of your problem.