When do you speak up?

[OldGreyEagle]

So, I was at the Y this morning for my daily run. While dressing two guys next to be were discussing the election results. One guy referenced something University of Kentucky Basketball coach Adolph Rupp supposedly told his all white team after the 1966 NCAA Championship game won by Texas Western, which started 5 black players.

 

Rupp was to have made some racially charged remark and Rupp himself was if not a racist bigot, he was definately a product of his era. The phrase attributed to Rupp is somehthing I wont try to paraphase, but it was pretty horrific and vulgar and as full from Scoutlike as can be. I researched today to see if I could verify that Rupp said anything like it and while I could not find the exact phrase, I did find some pretty close attributed to Rupp at various times.

 

I see this guy nearly every time I go to the Y, he is a loud mouth braggart who always knows whats what and how any situation should be handled, but I really wrestled with telling him not to repeat such things in my prescence. If I don't say something, he could infer I agree and that is certianly not true. WHat would you do?

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

One option to consider would be making a complaint to the management.

 

They might or might not do something. But if they chose to do so, they would probably handle it in a tactful way and they could use an office that would tend to avoid issues.

 

 

Worth a try, I would say.

[Twocubdad]

How would overhearing something said in a conversation to which you were not a party infer your agreement?

[ADCinNC]

"That belief (Kentucky is overtly racist) was given life by a Sports Illustrated article on the 25th anniversary of the 1966 NCAA Championship game ... With no evidence beyond gossip, the magazine indicted the Kentucky coach, Adolph Rupp, accusing him of politics leaning to the Ku Klux Klan. Rupp-as-racist stories now have been so embellished that the average basketball fan can be forgiven for imagining Rupp burning a cross in the yard of any black player who dared think of playing at Kentucky. That image is a lie." - by Dave Kindred, Atlanta Journal and Constitution, "Facts Belie Stereotype of Racist Rupp at UK," May 11, 1997.

 

If it were me, I would have re-educated the "gentleman" (I am from Kentucky).

[DeanRx]

If I was not included in the conversation, I most likely would stay mum as not saying anything does not imply agreement with which you disagree.

 

However, if it was being directed at someone else out of hate or intimidation, or in mixed company, I would say something. Most likely, "hey, knock it off... you can think that way if you want, but others find it offensive." or one other I use from time to time, "Well, I had hoped our society had pretty much moved past issues like this, but sorry to hear that some folks still can't see past XXXX (race / religion / etc...)". Then leave it at that.

 

The point would be if you are going to say something, it is to let the other person know that it is not appreciated being shared with the public at large. No need to debate or belittle the person as you are in no way going to influence them to change their mind, and in some cases are likely to inflame the dialgoue and perhaps risk harm to yourself or others.

 

Dean

[ntrog8r]

"Hey, you know I heard you talking the other day about Adolph Rupp. I was really shocked to hear he said something like that - of course people weren't as educated then and bigotry was pretty widespread. Anyway, I did some research and found out there's actually nothing to that story. Its funny how gossip and rumors can ruin a man's reputation like that isn't it?"

 

In the building where I work this week, we had a person make a very off-hand and inappropriate joke. Most were uncomfortable, a couple laughed, I just said, "Really? Do you really think that's funny? Did you think that's the kind of thing we want to hear? Let's get this job done and get refocused on our teams." Now, in my work environment that's easier than in a public gym. But my goal was basically to end the comments before they got worse without turning it into battle. The whole "soft answer" concept.

 

At the same time, we are dealing with a young man who has done real damage in his area with his comments and had gotten away with it for so long it was pretty bad. None of his supervisors thought to say anything and his peers kept quiet. The behavior just got worse. My question to all in the office, with him there, was why six people would stand around and watch this happen without jumping in.

 

But things have gotten better. There is plenty of room for us to improve - as people. But I'm glad to live and work in a Nation where we care about respecting others.

[Eagledad]

Just to be clear, this guy was just quoting something said 50 years ago and you are offended by the language of the quote? I can understand, some words are offensive even from quotes. I can think of a few words that might motivate me to say something.

 

I kind of the same experience yesterday, I work in a predominately liberal department and a couple of folks were having a discussion about the election in the hallway that would be offensive to most Christians. They did not know anyone could hear the conversation. Should I have said something?

 

One final thing about this subject, we have had discussions on this forum about how much tolerance should be given to scouts cussing. Some scouters here are pretty tolerant, but shouldn't we set an example to prepare scouts for their adult life like in your experience above?

 

Barry

 

[SSScout]

I overheard a colleague at work speak disparagingly about another (who was not there) as a "retard". As my brother is mentally challenged, I took offense of this term used in this way, and I took the speaker aside and told him that I felt the use of the term "retard" was inappropriate and I told him why. My brother was labeled as "mentally retarded early in his life, had labored all his life to learn and support himself. He had the help and encouragement of my parents, myself and many others. He lives as independantly as possible, given his limitations, and does quite well. I reminded the speaker that in our work (transit bus driving) we were always in the public eye and it would be well if he were more sensitive to his language. Mental Retardation was no longer felt to be the appropriate term for folks that had limitations in their thinking.

He listened politely and then tried to defend his language in describing the actions he spoke about. But perhaps "stupid" or "dumb" was a more apt description. He said he was not aware of my family and apologized if he had offended me "in particular". I thanked him and we parted company. Maybe I had at least given him something to think about.

 

He died about 3 weeks later of a heart attack at the wheel of his bus.

 

 

 

 

In the United States, the quotation from Pastor Niemoller is more commonly known as:

 

 

First they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Remember they were talking about the election results and something racist was said, I guess whehther Adolph Rupp said it or not is actually of little consequence, it was a racist slur against the President and all Black Americans and I said nothing. It was loud enough for anyone close to hear and I said nothing. I regret that now

[SSScout]

 

Aha... Now I see... most folks do have 20/20 hindsight...

 

Maybe just walking over to him at that point and saying , "excuse me, Did I hear my name mentioned?" and wait for his reaction.

[DigitalScout]

This is something I myself struggle with. I really get dislike confrontating people. It makes me very uncomfortable and I guess that makes me a coward. I know it's a character flaw that I need to work on.

 

In Cub Scouts we talk a lot to the kids about courage, standing up to bullies, and standing up to their friends when they are doing something wrong. But I feel like a hypocrite because I often lack the courage myself to confront strangers or even people I know well.

 

Any tips on how to fix that?