Courtesy and Civility

[Lisabob 13]

Ha, Ken, I've only lived in MI for about a decade. Kind of limits my opportunities to have voted for or against him.

 

But there is an argument to be made that longevity matters. When I lived in NY we had a guy, Al D'Amato, who was a Senator forever (well it seemed that way). When elections rolled around he would make the case that he was an effective representative for the state because of his tenure. He knew how to get things done, he had influential committee assignments, people owed him favors, etc., and he used this to NY's benefit (in his view at least). In fact one of his nicknames was "Senator Pothole" because he was good at getting federal highway funding to fix NY's roads. He always said voters would be better served by keeping him, rather than by sending some new guy or gal who didn't know the ropes.

 

Now when it gets to the point where they're drooling on themselves and can't remember their names, yeah I think they should resign. But longevity in office, by itself, isn't necessarily an automatic strike against them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Either get off your butt and do something about it or shut up, sit down and be a sheep.

 

Yah, not to worry, eh? I'll remember. If Wilson gets a primary challenger, his challenger will get a hefty donation from me, and Wilson's campaign and da newspaper in town will get a letter from me explainin' why.

 

I expect his district is one of these typically gerrymandered districts that locks in one party or the other. Would love to bring an end to that across da country eh? But da wingnuts and strategists in both major parties are strongly opposed, because then they'd have to fund real campaigns across da country rather than rely on the echo-chamber in "safe" districts.

 

Beavah

 

[vol_scouter 365]

Beavah,

 

I have developed considerable respect for your opinion but I am frankly appalled that you would contribute to a campaign for someone who does not represent you. I have never felt that is correct. I know many people who gave to the campaign of the republican who first ran against Hilliary Clinton for the US senate. I did not like Hilliary (though she looks great now compared to what we have in office now) but I felt that it was wrong for me to interfere in a process that really should only concern the citizens of New York. This is one of the problems in the election process. We should not stick our nose in other people's representation. I even have problems with the RNC and the DNC taking supporting local candidates.

 

As to commercials attacking a candidate, the money should only come from the areas represented, unless the message is generic such as pro or con abortion, gun control, etc. without referring or inferring a particular candidate. Just my view of democracy.

[BrentAllen 10]

Source: Wilson breaks $1 million

 

A source on Rep. Joe Wilson's campaign says his fundraising has broken $1 million -- and surpassed that of his Democratic rival, Rob Miller -- since his outburst of "You lie!" during President Obama's address to Congress Wednesday.

 

The source said Wilson's current tally is $1,005,021 from 18,859 donations amid a high-profile campaign on the Drudge Report and elsewhere telling conservatives that Wilson is "under attack" for his willingness to take on Obama.

 

Wilson, who initially apologized for his words, is now riding a reaction that has surpassed the liberal backlash to his words: Miller has raised less than $900,000, according to the Democratic fundraising site ActBlue -- though still more than enough to envigorate his challenge.

 

Still, Wilson's success -- despite having been criticized by Republican leaders -- represents the power of the conservative grassroots to reward politicians who confront the White House in the sharpest terms.

 

CORRECTION: He may still trail Democrat Rob Miller, who broke $1 million yesterday.

 

[Lisabob 13]

That's an interesting point too. In a purist sort of way I agree with vol. Given the current system, I appreciate Beavah's response.

 

Evidently Wilson ran a web ad using his recent behavior as a tool to attempt to fundraise from his base (and presumably, from sympathizers nation-wide). But he does have an opponent, Rob Miller. According to this article, his opponent's backers have raised almost $800,000 in the last few days as a direct result of Wilson's behavior.

 

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/11/actblue-raises-over-750000-for-joe-wilsons-opponent/

 

Edited: Brent, you beat me to it buddy.

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[Narraticong 15]

While I tend to agree with Vol in regard to leaving the business of a particular state to the residents of that state, the particular case of Mrs. Clinton is another thing.

 

As far as I know Mrs. Clinton had never lived in New York before deciding to run for the Senate. She found a place she could likely win from and get herself into a powerful office from which she hoped to vault to the White House. No more nor less than a stepping stone. No history with the State of New York. Pure politics with a personal agenda.

 

In this case, I would think she should be fair game for money from wherever it might come. Her candidacy was national in nature.

 

Ken

[Narraticong 15]

Lisa-

 

As to the value of longevity in the Senate, I agree the benefit to his home state in terms of funding is great. Senator Byrd and Senator Stevens were great examples. Due to their long terms in office, they became powerful Committee Chairman. A more junior Senator could not expect success without paying homage to these grand poobahs. Thus the famous "bridge to nowhere" debacle.

 

Your tax money and mine is wasted on the pet projects of these key Senators while more important projects go by the wayside.

 

Our Constitution still stand as the greatest government document ever written. There is no need to change a thing. But we need to clean house on the legislators and judges who have made a shambles of it by twisitng words and ignoring what it clearly says. The founders intended for as much control to be left in the hands of state and local government as possible. We need to get back to those basics.

 

Ken

[Lisabob 13]

Yeah and here's the rub, Ken. In most cases that money isn't viewed as "wasted" by the residents of that Senator's or Congress member's home state or district.

 

You might think "hasn't NY gotten enough money for their roads already??!" But I can tell you , New Yorkers were thinking "isn't it great that Senator D'Amato knows how to help us keep our roads in good shape?" And now living in MI, I wish our Senators were half as attentive to that because our roads here are terrible.

 

Evidently it is only "wasteful" if it is going to somebody else's constituents.

 

As for Clinton, yes there were a lot of harsh things said about her transplant to NY. New Yorkers were not shy about saying some of those things, either. Bottom line is, they chose her anyway. That's their business. Following Vol's line of thought, why should somebody in, say, Kansas, care who New Yorkers choose as their representative? (And whatever your politics, she did work very hard for New York, and won a lot of them over. She was re-elected 6 years later with more than 60% of the vote, which is an unusually high margin of victory.)

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

I think it's a sad state of affairs that a politician can utter two words, and $2 million in donations results to him and his opponent, without regard to their records or platforms. Just proves the stupidity of the American electorate.

 

Perhaps that IS one area where I think the Govt should get involved. Grant each candidate for national office $1 million to run a campaign...no donations allowed. We the People deserve the right to choose the best person for the job...and not limit our choices to the ones with the biggest campaign chest.

[skeptic 993]

Sctldr;

 

Limited funding I can definitely go for; but I would not only limit, but make it funds that they raise, not granted from government in any way. As an adjunct to that, add on a requirement that each would be allowed only "n" number of tv ads, and local markets would be required to donate say 1-3 spots for every local candidate (no national ones).

 

Would never happen of course in this period of history, because the control is not ours. But these kind of things might again allow candidates to run that do not now, due to the ridiculous cost of winning.

 

Also still feel term limits have their place, but they need to be designed far better than most in place now are.

 

JMO

[Kahuna 172]

Beavah: let me know how much you donate and I'll giving a matching one to Wilson.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, Vol, I agree with you, eh? I wish in a lot of ways we would limit da donations to just folks in-district.

 

The problem as I see it, though, is that my representative or senator may not be on a committee that directly affect me, eh? If I'm a physician, shouldn't I be able to have a say in who is sittin' on da committee on health, education, and labor? If I'm a small businessman, don't I as a voter have an interest in da races which may affect da Senate Small Business & Entrepreneurship committee? Those folks may affect me far more than my own elected officials.

 

Beavah: let me know how much you donate and I'll giving a matching one to Wilson.

 

Yah, a bit like da Democrats who went and applauded Bill Clinton after he had been impeached, eh? Even if they liked his policies or disagreed with da impeachment, what he did did not merit acclamation. They set da tone that honor didn't matter in the face of partisanship. Somethin' to expect from liberals, eh? But somethin' that should be anathema to folks with conservative values.

 

I'll let yeh know as soon as I hear a Republican challenger has declared. Anyone worthwhile it will be $2300 (Mrs. Beavah doesn't go in for political donations, so dat's the limit ). Yeh have to decide what your own values are, eh? And whether Representative Wilson's actions are truly what yeh think conservative values and America stand for.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[sherminator505 10]

Looks like Congressman Wilson is having one of those moments like Howard Dean had after his Iowa speech. I hope it lasts for quite a while.

[SR540Beaver 116]

This past weekend, MTV held their annual video awards. Country artist Taylor Swift won best female video. Hip hop artist Kanye West once again proved what a major ass he is when he took the stage during her acceptance, took the microphone and said that Beyonce had made probably one of the best videos in history. He handed the microphone back to her as she stood speechless. He is publically taking a drubbing from all quarters about what a king sized and arrogant jerk he was already known to be.

 

Why is it that in politics, this kind of behavior is accepted and even encouraged? I'm 52. If I had acted like Wilson did, my 80 year old mother would have justifiably taken me to task for it.

[BrentAllen 10]

SR540B,

I fail to see where Wilson's behavior is either accepted or encouraged. This was not pre-meditated, he just let his emotions get to him. He has apologized, and Obama has accepted his apology. What more do you want?