Federal funds and scouting

[Mr. Boyce 13]

Interesting to see the perspective taken by the 1929 Handbook for Scoutmasters:

 

 

The question of government subsidy of the Boy Scout Movement has frequently arisen, and has found hearty advocates among some of the strongest supporters of the Boy Scout Movement. The attitude of the Executive Board is that any appropriation or subsidy made by the government for the benefit of the Boy Scout Movement would necessarily impose restrictions and limitations, and involve the organization in obligations to follow the dictates of the federal government even to the extent, possibly, of conflicting with the fundamental policies on which the Boy Scout Movement is organized. (p.539, Handbook for Scoutmasters)

[kb6jra 10]

My old council received $10K from a government grant for thier LFL division. The council was almost immediately sued by the ACLU claiming that the funds were not used for the LFL division as had been stated. The suit was ultimately dropped by the ACLU for lack of proof, but the damage had been done. The suit cost the council a minimum of $40K to defend itself against the attack.

 

Kind of brings to mind the old joke President Regan delivered, "The ten most feared words in the English language "I'm from the Federal Government, and I'm here to help.""

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Would this be Glenn Goodwin v. Old Baldy Council?

[Gonzo1 10]

Doesn't matter, _____ vs. _______ still cost that council $40,000 to defend itself in a case that had no merit. Way to go ACLU!

 

The ACLU - a big waste of time and mney.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

still cost that council $40,000 to defend itself in a case that had no merit.

 

Uh, no. In Glenn Goodwin v. Old Baldy Council, the Old Baldy Council clearly committed fraud, as their signed contract is here:

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/Old_Blady_Complaint.pdf

 

Notice that this HUD grant paid to recruit for their Scoutreach program, which does not allow atheists. This is in violation of HUD requirements, which prohibit religious discrimination in any program financed by a Community Development Block Grant.

 

The 9th circuit said the Federal False Claims act didn't apply in this case, which is why the case was lost, and which is why I've been ferreting out HUD grants before they're granted.

 

 

[evmori 11]

Isn't the 9th Circuit the one in San Fransisco that continually comes up with the unusual interpretations of just about everything?

 

ACLU = American Communist Lawyers Union

[Pack212Scouter 10]

Wow...signing that contract was STUPID. It also forbids discrimination of services based on sex. Which means co-ed Packs & Troops would be required. Which is also against BSA policy. I'm suprised the ACLU missed that one.

[GernBlansten 10]

Ed,

Are you against civil liberties in general, or the just the organization founded to protect them?

[Pack212Scouter 10]

To interject my own opinion...I am against ANY organization devoted to removing MY civil liberties. I will fully support someone's right to their opinions and beliefs, but when it treads on mine that's gone too far. I do NOT have to hold someone's beliefs as equally true to mine, and accept them into my life. I only should accept their right to believe them. The ACLU is devoted to making the uncommon normal and the wrong equally right with the truth (as my rights give me to believe and practice them). Should government funds be allowed to go to a religious organization? Or a group that has certain beliefs? Yes, if it does not harm anyone, is not principally for the purpose of advancing a particular religion, it benefits many and the majority of the PEOPLE agree to it. How is it right that my tax money can support an art project of someone peeing on a cross, but it can't support a Boy Scout unit that serves thousands of inner city youth that are struggling? As much as they tout their "tollerance", the ACLU is not dedicated to helping or improving ANYONE's lives. They are dedicated to creating a society that is in their vision.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

[evmori 11]

Gern,

I'm not against civil liberties at all! I just don't feel the ACLU is American or civil.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Pack212Scouter, the reason public money can't be used to run a scout troop is because the BSA insists on excluding atheists, and the government can't support religious discrimination.

[GernBlansten 10]

"As much as they tout their "tollerance", the ACLU is not dedicated to helping or improving ANYONE's lives."

I think those in the minority are grateful for the ACLUs help in defending their rights against the tyranny of the majority.

[Mr. Boyce 13]

Gern, I think it's more complicated than this. The ACLU for years has worked the system. It has its own agenda.

 

More to the point, the ACLU relies on a specific notion of WHAT civil liberties are. For instance, the ACLU has decided to agree with the idea that there is such a thing as "homosexual rights". Acting on this, it files lawsuits.

 

There is today no generally shared set of "American civil liberties"; civil liberties are being contested by the conservatives and liberals, and the ACLU goes with the liberals. Because of this, many people feel the ACLU is on a vendetta.

 

It would be much better for the organization to simply stand up for civil rights with a long and settled history. I am dumbfounded that we are expected to believe that just because a majority of the transient ACLU board has voted that a "civil liberty" exists, that we are supposed to swallow it.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

If the ACLU only stood up for rights with a long and settled history, they wouldn't have fought racial discrimination in the 1960s. Besides, who do you think helped make some civil rights history "long and settled" in the first place?

[emb021 16]

"The attitude of the Executive Board is that any appropriation or subsidy made by the government for the benefit of the Boy Scout Movement would necessarily impose restrictions and limitations, and involve the organization in obligations to follow the dictates of the federal government even to the extent, possibly, of conflicting with the fundamental policies on which the Boy Scout Movement is organized."

 

And they would not be wrong in that view.

 

There are a few colleges/universities who refuse to accept any federal funding, because doing so would give the government cause to impose various policies on them. Even having their students accept federal subsidies would impose the same thing, so they work to provide scholarships so their students can avoid this.

 

Government money always comes with strings attached, for good or ill.