Scouts oath "is religious discrimination"

[fgoodwin 23]

Scout's oath 'is religious discrimination'

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/31/nscout131.xml

http://tinyurl.com/2ppp4q

 

By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent

Last Updated: 10:04am GMT 01/02/2008

 

The Scout Association has been reported to the equality watchdog for allegedly discriminating against atheists by making them swear an oath to God.

 

[...] it has become the latest target of secularists when the National Secular Society and the British Humanist Association complained to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

 

[...] the two secular bodies said in a joint letter to Derek Twine, the chief executive of the Scout Association, that the requirement for members to have a faith should now be made optional.

 

Stephen Peck, the Association's director of programmes and development, said: "It is fundamental to scouting that young people are helped to understand their spirituality. It is in our lifeblood."

 

The Equality and Human Rights Commission, which was set up in October and which is headed by Trevor Phillips, said it was committed to a vision of fairness, but it was too early to comment on this case.

 

[excerpted]

[John-in-KC 311]

Churches discriminate against atheists as well. We pray for them.

[Bob White 20]

My religion welcomes them to visit as much as they want, but they cannot be a member without learning and accepting the faith we share, and they cannot be leaders without first becoming members.

 

Sounds familiar.

[Gold Winger 9]

I feel sorry for atheists because they will never get to Znerflot and meet Znorfran.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[SSScout 1624]

"Fascinating, Captain"

 

And Bones and Kirk smile and wink at each other as Spock gets contemplative...

[GernBlansten 10]

Somehow, somewhere, the ACLU must be to blame for this.

[Gold Winger 9]

Nah, it's in the UK so you need to blame the Whiney British Liberals Organization (WBLO).

[le Voyageur 72]

Should an atheist believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny would that be enough to meet BSA's religious standards?

[Trevorum 24]

LV, while you're right in that they all belong to the same general class of supernatural/mythological beings, none of those beings is a deity. Therefore, I think the answer would be, "no". However, I think that any such being that is worshipped or venerated in any way would qualify. For example, maybe a belief in djinn would meet the BSA requirement. I don't know if it's ever been tested.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Trevorum)

[evmori 11]

Atheists are welcome at my church, too. They can't remain atheists and become members.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Of course, it's religious discrimination; the question is whether it's legal or illegal.

[CalicoPenn 729]

Santa Claus isn't a deity?

 

According to Wikipedia, a deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural being, who is always of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by human beings.

 

Santa Claus is a postulated (ie made up) preternatural being with significant power (anyone who can circle the globe delivering toys to millions of children from one sack of toys in a flying reindeer pulled sled squeezing his very chubby body into little chimneys to do so in one 24-hour period (ie Night - and its always night somewhere in the world has significant power), is worshipped by millions, thought sacred by millions, held in high regard and is respected by human beings. He may be prayed to more often that God is at a certain time of year.

 

He meets the criteria - I'd say Santa Claus is a deity.

 

Calico

[evmori 11]

Since the BSA is a private organization, they can decide who can become a member. Don't know that legal or illegal comes into play?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum 24]

Calico, you've posed a very interesting question. Is Santa Claus (or the Tooth Fairy) a deity?

 

Anthopologists routinely do this sort of classification among "primitive" peoples. There are two ways of looking at it. One: do the people themselves consider the being to be a divine entity (ie, a "god'). This is an "emic" (or insider's) viewpoint. Two: does the being posess qualities which the anthopologist himself would consider divine. This is an "etic" (or outsider's) viewpoint.

 

In the case of Santa Claus, the outside observer may well classify him as a god, since (as you note) Santa Claus is supernatural, possesses super-human powers and abilities, and is routinely supplicated for favors. On the other hand, I believe that few people within the culture would identify Santa Claus as a god for this label is reserved for sacred beings and Santa Claus is profane (along with the Tooth Fairy and the Great Pumpkin).

 

Of course this begs the question as to how BSA would react if someone were to claim to belong to the First Church of the North Pole.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I don't know if you've noticed Ed, but this is about the Scout Association in the UK, not the BSA.