SpiralScouts offer inclusive programs.

[Trevorum 24]

Ed,

Because even though a student is providing the voice, the school is providing the microphone, the sound system, and more importantly, the official venue. That prayer would be endorsed by the school.

 

Students can pray in the hallways just like they can argue politics. However, the school - as a representative of the Government - may NOT argue politics NOR tell the students when or where to pray, or to whom.

[evmori 11]

Bull! That''s nothing more than splitting hairs! A student can stand up in the lunch room of a public school & recite the 23rd Psalm & that is protected so is reciting it in the hall. The school provides the hall & lunch room & there is still a captive audience.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten 10]

Ed,

 

Its not splitting hairs, its an important distinction.

 

In one case, the prayer is endorsed by the government. In the other, its only endorsed by the individual. I''ll let you figure out which is which.

 

On second thought, I should probably step you through it.

If the student is using the PA, podium or class agenda to say their prayer, that is endorsement by the administrators. If the student stands up in the lunchroom and says the prayer, that is not endorsement by administrators and is protected.

 

So Ed, do you now understand why we don''t accept your claim that prayer in school is not allowed?

[Trevorum 24]

At our local high school, there is a religious club. I''m told that during lunches, while the chess club sets up their pieces, this club prays. Aloud. However, they are respectful of the rights of other students and they don''t insist that everyone else pay attention to them. Some students listen to what they are praying; most don''t.

 

[frank10 12]

Trevorum: I can''t believe you sit still for this! Shouldn''t you stand up and say something? I mean... Chess in school? promotes war and imperialism.

 

(I''d feel bad about doing this to this thread but it''s so far gone already)

[Gonzo1 10]

Atta boy Wingnut!

[evmori 11]

No difference. Hair splitting. Nothing more.

[Venividi 35]

A better question is why someone would WANT to have prayers made over the intercom in a public school. To do so is inconsiderate of others that have different beliefs.

[Trevorum 24]

OK, I tried. I really did. I gotta go with Merlyn on this one.

[evmori 11]

Really makes no difference why, Venividi. Being offended by what someone says is not protected by anything.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle 753]

Venividi, perhaps the answer to your question is the same as the reason that loudspeakers are used to announce prayers from minarettes in Islamic regions. Perhaps Christian fundamentalists actually want the same things that Moslems want. Perhaps they want the Christian equivalents of the Islamic madrassas. Perhaps their own private schools aren''t enough. I don''t know.

I do know I would want any prayer of mine to remain private and not open to public scrutiny.

 

There was a guy who used to show up on a corner in this town from time to time to exercise his right of free speech. He used those occasions to proclaim, over his bullhorn, that most of the students going in and out of the bars were going to hell, or something like that. Once in a while a drunk would try to engage him in debate, sometimes he would be offered a beer, mostly he was ignored. I often wondered if he would have been happier if we had a minarette he could climb instead of his milk crate. Perhaps this is just one more matter of perspective.

I wonder why he stopped coming here? Maybe he gave up on us. Oh well, it HAS been getting warmer lately.

 

ED..ited part: Heh, heh, Trevorum...I have a much more satisfying way to view the Ed/Merlyn thing. Merlyn is genuinely concerned about this issue. Ed tries to deny this but he doth protest too much! He is just baiting Merlyn by pretending not to 'get' these things. And it works beautifully. Trouble is, Ed has been so successful that he reeled you and a few others in as well and now you are just flopping around in the live well. I can just hear Ed chuckling with every cast. Heh, heh, great job, Ed! And don't deny it...you can't prove that you are NOT doing this, can you? (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Venividi 35]

packsaddle,

 

I think that the public square is a great place for any citizen to stand up and voice their opinion. Say a prayer if one wants; promote whatever brand of religion that one believes in. Citizens can come and watch, participate, or keep walking on by.

I have recollections similar recollections to yours of a preacher that showed up on our campus several times a year.

For some reason, the scene in Life of Brian where the leaders of multiple splinter groups of the Judean peoples front are all speaking on the public square comes to mind.

[evmori 11]

Ya figured me out pack! Gee am I red faced! NOT

 

There is no difference in my example. The ACLU & their ilk would like you to believe there is but in reality there isn''t. Sure private prayer is allowed in public schools. Private prayer is allowed everywhere! I was never talking about private prayer.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[ASM915 90]

Ed, Ed, Ed,

You sly fox you.

 

So your okay with Allah and Gaia and the others, eh?

 

If memory serves me right, several months ago you were upset with me, insisting that you were totally against a nondenominational or interfaith prayer that only stated to GOD. You stated that it had to be the GOD of your denomination/faith and that a generic reference was not good enough. I didn''t realize you were Muslim and believed in Allah, or is it Earth-based Pagan and Gaia? Or does your faith change daily? LOL

 

Wingnut, does that mean we have to stop playing Stratego too? Darn!!

 

And others here, I''ve known of many cases where the student made it to the microphone, and went for the prayer. Public yes. Supported by the School Administration? Don''t think so. Never saw the superintendent behind the student with a gun to his/her head saying recite the prayer. In most cases, the student(s) get suspended and or have their certificate withheld. So is it really public prayer if the school had no idea it was coming?

 

It''s nice to be back.

[evmori 11]

I mean no offense by this ASM915, but your memory is incorrect. If I can pray to God, someone else can pray to Vishnu or their shoes if they like.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10