ACLU threat causes Boy Scouts to drop public school ties

[fgoodwin 23]

http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=20306

 

ACLU threat causes Boy Scouts to drop public school ties; churches urged to fill void

 

Mar 9, 2005

By Jeff Robinson

 

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--The Boy Scouts of America is removing the charters of thousands of scouting units from public schools after an American Civil Liberties Union threat to sue taxpayer-funded institutions that charter BSA units.

 

The ACLU sent a letter to the Boy Scouts of America in February threatening legal action against public schools and other governmental agencies that charter Boy Scout groups on grounds that their sponsorship amounts to religious discrimination and violates the separation of church and state.

 

Boy Scouts open their meetings by holding three fingers aloft and repeating an oath in which members vow their allegiance to God and country, resolve to help others and commit to keeping themselves morally straight. Central to the BSA's stated mission is character development and values-based leadership training.

 

ACLU leaders view these conservative emphases as warrant for legal action, according to documents on the ACLU website.

 

While BSA is continuing to assess the number of Boy Scout and Cub Scout units that will be affected, BSA national spokesman Gregg Shields said units whose charters will be pulled from public schools would number in the thousands. BSA is America's largest youth organization that includes thousands of units and 1.3 million adult volunteers.

 

Defending against a wave of ACLU lawsuits would cost schools untold thousands of dollars, Shields said. Instead of risking financially draining litigation, the BSA is pulling scout units from schools as a matter of stewardship, he said.

 

"We obviously don't want that [expensive lawsuits against schools] to happen," Shields said. "Instead, the Boy Scouts have tried to protect the resources of our education partners by moving our charter from public schools to other community-based organizations such as parent-teacher organizations or Salvation Army units or nearby religious organizations."

 

Shields said the Boy Scouts of America is counting on community organizations such as churches to take up the charters of scouting units that have been removed from public schools and other governmental organizations.

 

Removal of a scouting unit's charter from a school will not necessarily remove its presence from the school, Shields said, noting that groups will still have access to public school facilities; they just won't be chartered by the schools.

 

"Boy Scout troops will still have the same rights as any other community-based group to meet in school buildings, but the charter will not be held by the school administration," he said.

 

"We hope to make this a seamless transition that won't even be noticed by the youth and barely noticed by our 1.3 million generous volunteers who give their time to help American youth," Shields said.

 

Shields said community groups already have begun to fill the void left by the shift from public school charters. While many churches already sponsor Cub Scout packs, Shields urges many others to get involved in all levels of scouting, an institution whose core values can fit well within the standards of most conservative evangelical congregations.

 

Churches can help in two ways, he said: by seeking to pick up a scout unit charter from a local school or by starting a new scout troop. He pointed out that charters involve very little money and merely provide individual units with an official place to meet and organize their activities.

 

"[Chartering a scouting unit] is not a complicated process," Shields said. "Many churches find scouting so in line with the mission of the church that they'll use Boy Scouting as an auxiliary to their youth program.... The values of the Boy Scouts certainly fit well with my church and I think they would most others."

 

The ACLU's threat also precludes other government organizations such as police, fire and recreation departments from holding charters for scouting units. BSA will seek groups such as fire and police department auxiliaries to pick up these charters, Shields said. But far more scout units are chartered by public schools than other governmental agencies, he said.

 

The latest threat of litigation is the latest chapter in a 25-year assault the ACLU has waged against the Boy Scouts. The ACLU has sued BSA 14 times over the past 25 years using similar accusations, Shields said.

 

The most widely publicized case involved a U.S. Supreme Court decision in 2000 upholding a New Jersey troop's removal of an assistant scoutmaster after it became known that the man was an avowed homosexual. Despite the legal victory, the ACLU and other scouting opponents have continued their efforts across the country.

 

Last fall, the ACLU threatened to sue the U.S. Department of Defense for chartering BSA units, causing the Pentagon to drop its BSA sponsorships.

 

By attempting to remove Boy Scouts from public schools, the ACLU is attempting to undermine an organization that has exerted an overwhelmingly positive influence on millions of school-aged children, Shields said.

 

"For decades, many, many school administrators, teachers and parents have recognized the benefits of having a scouting program in their institutions," he said. "Those involved in scouting have become better citizens and students because of the opportunity.

 

"However, the ACLU has ignored the schools' and the parents' rights to choose to participate or not in Boy Scouts. No one is forced to join Boy Scouts. Let's say a child has parents who are atheists. Nobody will force that child to join the Boy Scouts. Most Americans and the vast majority of parents value their freedom to choose [to participate in] the Boy Scouts and [support] the values they stand for."

[BadenP 93]

Truly what a sad article, and what a sad and tragic society that allows this kind of activity to take place. Maybe Shakespere was right when he wrote, "Kill all the lawyers." It is no wonder that the BSA is having such a hard time surviving having to deal with these ridiculous lawsuits. The ACLU probably won't be happy until the BSA is gone forever. Well Merlyn Leroy I bet you are ecstatic over this news. No one wins here, everyone loses.

[nldscout 18]

I predict this will be a whole lot of NOTHING. When DOD stoped sponsoring troop and packs they were picked up by community groups within a month or so. So I don't think this will amount to hill of beans.

 

The last thing we need is to get all wrapped up in this, eventually the ACLU will die a death of its own when public has had its fill of them.

[orennoah 11]

BadenP wrote "Maybe Shakespere (sic) was right when he wrote, 'Kill all the lawyers.'"

 

I share your frustrations with the absolutist stance that the ACLU has taken and its wholly negative attitude about Scouting. I am a Scoutmaster of a troop in an area where we are not allowed to have any of our promotional literature passed out at the local schools or any mentions included in the parent bulletins. This has prevented us from serving many, many boys.

 

However, your comment is not at all helpful. Rather, it is insulting, if not threatening. It surely does not reflect well on the values of Scouting.

 

As a Scoutmaster AND a lawyer, I resent it.

 

- Oren

[Eamonn 61]

I had heard that this memo was being sent to all SE's.

Every week it seems that we lose more ground. I wonder what the good men who were around in 1776 would think about what is going on now?

A few months ago in a Council near our Council a newspaper ran a story about how nice and how good it was that a school had worked hand in hand with the local Council. The people who Scout in that Council were overjoyed. The Council is having a hard time financially and everyone thought that this good press would help.

The very next day the Council got word that the American Atheists, were preparing to file a law suit. The Council moved quickly and the PTA took the charter. I don't know if the ACLU or this AA group will go after the PTA?

While they may be right and may have right on their side, surely they have bigger fish to fry?

Eamonn.

[evmori 11]

WOW! And the ACLU thinks this is a benefit to kids? How? Well now they can join NAMBLA!

 

If the ACLU was actually defending the rights of the American people, this would never happen.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[anarchist 10]

Hey out there...can we get a list of ACLU membership and donors from anywhere?...if we all got a list we could send a couple of million letters warning of a product/service boycott of our neighbors and their "businesses supporting" the American Communist Liberals Union (this is what ACLU stands for isn't it?) I would think if these businesses or individuals knew their livelyhoods were in danger of going south they might rethink their charitable giving...

 

It would not do much good, but would be something fun to do when we weren't camping....

[fgoodwin 23]

I don't know how successful a a boycott would be, or even if ACLU donor lists are public record.

 

I think the better approach would be to prepare for the inevitable court decision in ACLU's favor, and start looking now for alternative sponsorship, like a nearby church, or the school PTA, etc., as was done when the military caved to ACLU's demands.

[Hunt 11]

"No one wins here, everyone loses."

 

I don't agree. Although it will be a procedural pain for a while, the vast majority of units will make the transition with little difficulty, and most will continue meeting in the same place. The pressure to change the membership requirements will be much less (whether that's a win or loss depends on your viewpoint). What's more, most units will end up with COs that are able to give them better support. In the long run, I think it's better for BSA to disentangle itself from all these government entities.

 

Why did BSA (and DOD) "cave" to the ACLU? I suspect that, despite the rhetoric quoted in the article above, they realized they would lose the cases, and then they would be forced by court orders to get out of all these public organizations. This way, they can do it voluntarily, and they have the ACLU to blame rather than federal courts. Also, doing it all at once may make it easier to recruit new COs because of the PR.

 

I will add, as I've said before, that I think ACLU's concern over this was overblown because of the fact that in the vast majority of cases the "sponsorship" of BSA units by schools and other public entities involved very little or no expenditure of public funds, and really amounted to providing the units with a place to meet--in fact, the net flow of value may have been to the schools as a result of service projects. But as a matter of law, the ACLU is technically right about its point--that a government entity can't sponsor a religiously restrictive group--and BSA is right to separate.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I see nothing wrong with expecting governmental entitites to obey the Constitution. I completely agree with the ACLU on this issue; if the BSA is going to exclude people based on their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), then BSA units cannot be owned by the government. So they will be chartered to private entities. It is no big deal. And even if the ACLU were out to "destroy" the BSA (which I do not believe is the case), their motivations are irrelevant. They are correct on the law, and it is fully consistent with their principles to address this issue. I think the BSA would be a lot stronger if its supporters would stop whining so much about things like this, that really make no difference. And by the way, it appears that BSA-national agrees with me since they have not put up much of a fight on the government-ownership-of-units issue. Believe me, if BSA-national thought this was important, they would not give in without much more of a fight.

[acco40 95]

Great post NJ. I agree 100%. Why such venom against an organization that is trying to make sure the law is upheld? If one is not in agreement with this, one's efforts should not be directed against the ACLU but in changing the law.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

eamonn writes:

The Council moved quickly and the PTA took the charter. I don't know if the ACLU or this AA group will go after the PTA?

 

If the school only recognizes one official PTA, then I would still go after sponsorship by that PTA, as it's an official school organization.

 

While they may be right and may have right on their side, surely they have bigger fish to fry?

 

What's bigger than first amendment rights? Do you think violations of the first amendment should be ignored?

 

[FScouter 24]

"What's bigger than first amendment rights?"

 

The first amendment is a big one. It needs to be protected. But this issue about a government schools/religion/BSA threat to the first amendment is a fly speck. The government is establishing a religion? The government is preventing the free exercise thereof? I dont see much use for the ACLU if this is the biggest civil liberties fish that needs frying.

[Hunt 11]

"If the school only recognizes one official PTA, then I would still go after sponsorship by that PTA, as it's an official school organization."

 

You'd lose, though. The PTA is a private, not-for-profit organization. I also feel quite confident that the courts would draw a line between the school sponsoring the unit (endorsement of religion) and the PTA sponsoring the unit (no endorsement by the school of the Scout unit). They will say the connection with the school is too tenuous to suggest a constitutional violation. I suspect the ACLU will be too smart to waste its money on any such claim.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Most of the work on this was actually done by me, in compiling the lists of government-chartered BSA units at http://www.scoutingforall.org/packtroop

 

I've been keeping in touch with Adam Schwartz of the Illinois ACLU on the Winkler case, and after the military settlement to drop charters on military base(which was part of the Winkler case), I told him about the 300+ government chartered units in Illinois.

 

Mr. Schwartz wrote up a letter citing these units and sent it to National BSA headquarters, pointing out that government agencies can't sponsor youth groups with religious requirements for membership, and that the IL ACLU would start filing lawsuits if they weren't dropped. The BSA has decided to drop them.

 

So the only effort on the ACLU's part was typing a letter and mailing it out.

 

Also, I wonder if you would be as lackadaisical about religious discrimination by public schools if thousands of schools ran youth groups that excluded only members of your particular religion.

 

What if public schools ran chess clubs that wouldn't allow Jews to join?