nldscout 18 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Mark and anyone else that cares to read this. There are a lot of leaders out there that still beleive that Gays are an abomination, that its all in thier head, that its not a moral thing. I don't want to hear the Gay doctors that say they have no choice, cause they do. Just like all of lifes choices, if your gay you chose that , god didn't. If god chose you to be then why 50 yrs ago were the number of fags out there so small. Its only since it has become hip to be gay has there been so many Me personnaly they should round them all up and ship them somewhere else to live. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I would hate for someone to read a post like the one above and think that it reflects the thoughts, opinions or attitudes of the BSA. It does not. local chartering organizations are responsible for the selection and approval of adult volunteers and they come from all walks of life. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Good point, Bob. But if they are homosexuals we don't have to accept them. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Bob White, I'll second that emotion Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 bob white writes: ... local chartering organizations are responsible for the selection and approval of adult volunteers and they come from all walks of life. Well no, not "all" walks of life; that's why there's a dispute. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 My apologies Merlyn, let me be more specific. We have volunteers from all education levels. There are indeed some groups and individuals whose walks in life take them on paths with values we do not accept. If there was a way to restrict individuals with avowed crudeness I would support that as well. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
bt01 10 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 MarkNoel said: And done what? Lied? Hidden? What if he thought that the best thing for the Scouting movement here in the US would be to confront this issue head-on rather than having everyone pretend that there weren't gay scouts out there? I am not saying that he should have lied or say hidden. I am saying he should have not walked down the streets of Philadelphia with a sign in scout uniform. His actions have gotten him kicked him out of scouting and has brought this topic to eyes of the press. Link to post Share on other sites
questioning 10 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 The opinion seems to be that all the gays in scouting should stay in the closet and continue to teach non-acceptance to the youth of america. What Greg did is what needed to be done. My prayer is that many more gregs out there will stand up and be counted. You hate what you do not understand. I spent 54 years in scouting in the perverbial closet hearing all the off color remarks about gays this and fags that. There comes a time when we must all stand up for ourselves and what is right. Greg did just that in Phili on that day. What I do not understand is how is this council saying "we will not discriminate" and then throughing Greg out got to do with a scout is trustworthy. I call that a broken promise of the worst kind. Link to post Share on other sites
questioning 10 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Bob Walker was right. Scoutmasters come from all walks of life, but then so do gays. Your neighbor or your neighbor's son or daughter could be one but unless you are accepting you may never know Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 "The opinion seems to be that all the gays in scouting should stay in the closet and continue to teach non-acceptance to the youth of america." Incorrect. The rule is that as long as you do not publicly avow your homosexuality you may remain a member and lead scouting using the methods of the BSA and supporting the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The law is that as a private organization the BSA has a constitutionally protected right of association and may approve or deny membership for any reason it chooses. The opinion of anyone on this board is irrelevent to the policy and the law. "Your neighbor or your neighbor's son or daughter could be one but unless you are accepting you may never know" Simply not true, you can be accepting and still not know. You won't know unless they tell you. Until that time they are eligible to be members of the BSA. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
questioning 10 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Teach the BSA way. The BSA way use to be an accepting way. Unfortunatly it has changed. Hopefully they will turn back to acceptance of all boys because they have so much to offer. The sponsoring institution and the unit committee (the parents) should decide on the scoutmaster. Then all religions would be accepted. There is so much missing from Baden Powell's concept of a "manboy" and the direction of openness and acceptance in todays scouting. Having been involved for 54 years I have seen it both ways and I must say this way is very lacking. Link to post Share on other sites
MarkNoel 10 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Bob White writes: > Simply not true, you can be accepting and still not know. You won't know unless they tell you. Until that time they > are eligible to be members of the BSA. and in the same post, also writes in response to another poster: > > "The opinion seems to be that all the gays in scouting should stay in the closet and continue to teach non- > > acceptance to the youth of america." > > Incorrect. The rule is that as long as you do not publicly avow your homosexuality you may remain a member and > lead scouting using the methods of the BSA and supporting the values of the Scout Oath and Law. How do these two statements make sense? In the first, you argue that a gay person would be eligible for membership only as long as he was able to keep people around him in the dark about his sexual orientation, and that as soon as he told someone, he would no longer be eligible for membership. But in the same post, you described as "Incorrect" the assertion that gays in scouting "should stay in the closet." Can you please explain your reasoning here? YiS, -Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Questioning, please allow me to ask a question of you. As a veteran scouter of over 50 years this should not be a problem to answer. Since what we teach to the scouts is, and always has been, contained in the Boy Scout Handbook and the youth Handbooks of the Cub Scout program, please site a skill, value or lesson from a handbook of the past and compare it to a specific skill; value or lesson of the present handbook to prove your point. One piece of actual evidence is all I ask for. Not an opinion, not social/political jargon. Just one piece of actual evidence that what you say we are teaching today's scouts is true. Take as long as you need. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Mark, Because, you said that "The opinion seems to be that all the gays in scouting should stay in the closet and it is not an opinion. It is the POLICY of the BSA. It is a constitutional right supported by the U.S. Supreme Court. Opinion has nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter if the opinion of every member of this board was in favor of homosexual members because the opinion of this board is irrelevant to the policies of the BSA. The policy says that an avowed homosexual may not hold membership. It goes on to say that a member who publicly supports homosexuality (even if they themselves are not homosexual) can be removed from membership. Membership is reserved for those who publicly live by and support the mission of the BSA and the values of the Scout Oath and LAW. I hope that is more clear, Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
questioning 10 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 I will be happy to answer that Bob How about the Scout law: A scout is Trustworthy- So when an youth whi has beenin scouting for say 6 of 7 years reaches Puberty and begins to question He better not go to his scoutmaster who he truly trusts and broch the subject. He must hide it and lie about it. The fact is the moment you begin teaching chat there is a segment of the population that is not as good as them because of who they are nad not what they have done you are teaching hate. A scout is friendly- A brother to all other scouts and a friend to all showing acceptance of their ways. Bob, here is a question for you. Do you believe in the Scout oath and Law, and do you follow it. Lately I have seen too many breaches in it by the National Executive board and I must say many of those in this forum. Fact is when a young man begins to question the needs guidance and help not dismissal. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now