Course reversal in Philly?

[CubPack495 10]

Merlyn, I'm sorry, but I honestly don't know what it was before this month as I am new to scouting and now seem to be adding to the confusion. What I asked the SE and the DE was if the media was correct in reporting that the Cradle of Liberty changed it's policy. I asked to see documentation of this change. Their responses were that this effects Learning for Life only. I was also given the position statement that is now shown on National's site, which shows that BSA policy for the council is consistent with that of National. Until this month, I had not seen a position statement relating to our council--only those that were already on National's site. The one thing that I can say with confidence is that the media is reporting something other than what council told me. Again, I'm sorry if I'm making things more confusing; my attempt was only to answer the question posed. ~Laurie

[dsteele 20]

Merlyn -- Back again?

 

The Cradle of Liberty Council changed nothing other than to make public that which already existed -- the policy of the Learning for Life subsidiary that it's membership policies were a mirror of the sponsoring organization. It may not have been publicly stated before, but anyone who is accepted by the group who signs the participation agreement for learning for life is acceptable.

 

That does not grant them membership in the Boy Scouts of America. It only grants them participation in the subsidiary Learning for Life program.

 

DS

[evmori 11]

Ever notice merlyn only post in this forum? Apparently his only agenda is to attack Scouting & not really contribute anything.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle 753]

Ed, I was tired and we were in the midst of a 20-minute prayer...I began staring at the ceiling high above. A wasp sat on a distant beam. Just as I was about to doze, it flew down and stung me on the nose. Merlyn is kind of like that. At the moment, I didn't much enjoy it but in retrospect, I can appreciate the event. Even if his motives are as you say, I would rather have them aired for examination than push him into the corner. I think it makes all of us better. And remember his alter ego, Zorn, or whoever, at least Merlyn seems sincere.

[dsteele 20]

I would have squished the wasp like a bug. I do, however, respect Merlyn's right to his views -- however wrong they may be.

 

DS

[packsaddle 753]

Unlike a honeybee, a wasp can inflict multiple stings. Once was memorable enough for me. FYI it flew back to the ceiling. I now examine church ceilings when I enter.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

 

dsteele writes:

The Cradle of Liberty Council changed nothing other than to make public that which already existed -- the policy of the Learning for Life subsidiary that it's membership policies were a mirror of the sponsoring organization.

 

That wouldn't have taken 2 years of negotiation.

 

The United Way of southeastern PA restricted funding to Learning for Life quite a while ago; you can see from this 2002 list of partners on their web site:

http://home.uwsepa.org/resources/toolkit/2002/2002_Member_AgenciesRev6.pdf

Here it indicates that only L4L is funded, and this is from last year.

 

However, many UW supporters didn't want the UW to support a nondiscriminatory wholly-owned subsidiary of a discriminatory organization, and that's what took over 2 years of discussion:

 

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/103-05292003-97870.html

...

Part of the issue is that the national policy was making benefactors

uncomfortable. The United Way took heat from gay activists and others

when it funded a development program run by the Boy Scouts, even though

the program was open to anyone.

 

"The reality is, we did get some pressure from other groups who said,

`This program may not discriminate, but this organization does,'" said

Christine James-Brown, the president of the United Way of Southeastern

Pennsylvania.

 

This month's nondiscrimination statement was the result of meetings

organized by the United Way that began two years ago. Boy Scout leaders

and community leaders, including gay activists, discussed the issue at

length.

...

 

[Bob White 20]

I find it an interesting study of character when United Way funding for programs supporting activities or services for athiests or homosexuals are not challenged by the Boy Scouts of America or their local councils. But funding for the the Local councils of the BSA is always challenged by athiests and homosexual groups.

 

Who is really the more tolerant organization?

 

Bob White

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Bill White writes:

I find it an interesting study of character when United Way funding for programs supporting activities or services for athiests or homosexuals are not challenged by the Boy Scouts of America or their local councils. But funding for the the Local councils of the BSA is always challenged by athiests and homosexual groups.

 

I don't know of any UW supported programs that only allow atheists; many UWs require that programs they fund not discriminate on the basis of religion and/or creed, and atheists will point out that the Boy Scouts do not meet such a requirement.

 

I find it an interesting study of character that an organization that discriminates on the basis of religion continues to charter units to government agencies that can't legally discriminate on the basis of religion, and even pretends to teach students how to make ethical decisions in their non-discriminatory subsidiary.

[nldscout 18]

I find it ironic that any normal person would give money to an organization like the united way. Its so full of communist fags that they don't care what the community thinks

 

[dsteele 20]

At one time I stayed out of this kind of debate because I'm a commissioned professional with the BSA. Now I've changed my mind. I'm also an admittedly unchurched, but deeply faithful believer in God.

 

Having said that, I've now made my position as clear as you have made yours, Merlyn.

 

So tell me, please, what drives you to your mission? Do you wish that all us poor God loving saps will suddenly agree that there is nothing running this universe and we were created from pond sludge?

 

Or do you simply wish to live in peace on your own knowing that there is no god? If so, we're doing that. I haven't seen anyone try to convert you.

 

If you wanted to start your own "atheists only" club, no one here would stop you or try to stop you, even if you got the government to sponsor it. I don't even care if you're chartered by a local village, an army base, or congress . . . it would only be fair.

 

But if you were, I wouldn't try to take the right away from you, even if they denied the Boy Scouts the same priviledge. What I would do is fight for equal rights for the BSA.

 

But you're not fighting for equal rights. You're fighting for demolisihing what is there. That's what really makes me angry.

 

Perhaps fairness comes from God (in whatever form you believe.)

 

DS

[packsaddle 753]

As Bob Dole would say, "down, boy!" Merlyn's motives are not relevant as far as I'm concerned. If our ideas can stand critical scrutiny, they are stronger for it. If we avoid or reject such scrutiny, then we can't really know the strength of those ideas. And if some of our ideas are weak, critical examination is the best way to detect and then avoid or reject them.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[packsaddle 753]

And I might add...observed correctly using a good microscope, pond 'sludge' is quite fascinating. Harrumph!

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

dsteele writes:

...

If you wanted to start your own "atheists only" club, no one here would stop you or try to stop you, even if you got the government to sponsor it.

...

 

I very much doubt that; I myself would object to the government owning & operating "atheists only" clubs, because that's in violation of the constitution, and I would think at least some of the people here would try to stop their own government from acting outside the constitution, so I think there would be other people here trying to stop it.

 

I actually have this odd idea that the government should not run youth groups that have religious requirements for membership.

 

...

But you're not fighting for equal rights. You're fighting for demolisihing what is there.

...

 

"what is there" is unlawful religious discrimination by the US government whenever it sponsors a Boy Scout unit; the only legal option is for the government to stop doing that.

 

When public schools had to stop reciting prayers every morning, I'm sure some people saw that as destructive, even though it was the only right thing to do. The government can't practice religious favoritism. And it can't "own and operate" (the BSA's own description of how a charter organization relates to its BSA units) a "no atheists" youth group.

[Bob White 20]

nldscout,

You obviously have more intimate details regarding the personal lives of your local United Way officers than we have where I live. I can only hope you came upon this knowledge in a way that would not violate the membership rules of scouting.

 

No matter, it does the scouting movement an injustice when it is represented by an adult leader that uses that kind of language. I'm sure even your scouts are encouraged to make better use of their education when choosing their words in public.

 

I hope you will confront those you disagree with on this board, and in topics on this board, with greater control.

 

Thanks,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)