Resentment about needing to get trained?!

[ScoutBox 11]

OK!

[SeattlePioneer 144]

 

 

 

Sigh. Sounds like it will take some time to get introduced.

 

If they have committee meetings that might be a time to visit their meeting.

[hicountry 20]

I was fortunate to develop a solid adult leader team over the 5 years I was SM. All those people are still on board as ASM's and have considerable experience on campouts, hikes, backpacking and the way a BSA troop and patrols should run. Denver area council is not on the manditory training list that I have heard of but the topic has been discussed by adults on a when, what if basis. All our adult leaders have had YPT, Leader essentials, safe swim, weather etc etc but the IOLS would be a waste on active and experienced scouters doing it right. Even the test out is un necessary for them. We decided that if we had manditory IOLS forced on us, the one adult who has IOLS (Treasurer) would register on paper as the SM but the real SM would lead ther ttoop and the treasrer would actually do his treasurer job. All the ASM's would register as committee members but continue to function as ASM's as they always have. Our treaurer who took IOLS years ago told us it was the biggest waste of time ever. The went out to a field where they sat in lawn chairs and one or two scouters read from pages of manuals for hours on end. They went over nothing new for him and when it was done, anyone who was there and breathing got the cert. If they want to force that on a troop like ours that gets it, does it right and has plenty of experience then we know there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[hicountry 20]

Sorry for the double post but I missed this one.....

 

National would be well advised to look at the volunteer fire service as a model of how to maintain professional standards in a volunteer service. While rules vary from state to state, there are national standards in place created by the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association).

 

Most firefighters have some level of NFPA certification. In some states a certain level of continuing education (CE) is required to maintain that certification. The individual has some choice in what kind of CE they want to earn depending upon their needs and interests. There may be some baseline of subject matter that is mandatory but a 15 year veteran would not go back to basic fire training to recertify.

 

It would be fairly simple to create a short, online, and mandatory refresher course that would cover any recent rule, policy, or procedure changes. Then let veteran leaders select training of interest. First aid, CPR, kayaking, scuba certification, etc. Basically anything that helps ensure that they are the "qualified supervision" needed for an outing.

 

EMT and other med training is different but Colorado Firefigher 1 which I have been certified for years in is a renewal of nearly an opt out situation. Our Assistant chief of training knows who is active and being smart and effective in the hot zone since last re-certification date. (Pretty much everyone who doesn't maintain actual experience normall quits in the 5 years between recert anyway).

 

When the FF1 Bubble sheet comes around at recert date, he knows if you've shown competence and experience in laddering, entry, fire suppression, ventilation etc etc and you are signed off. They don't waste people's time testing on the difference between teh jaws and the sheers when you do a half dozen MVA extrications a year or how to put on bunker gar and SCBA when you don that stuff a couple times a month.

 

Wild land is another situation and has become a check the box CYA deal where every year we have to see the same films and go over the 18 watchouts and LCES and 10 standard fire order class stuff every year. It is one of the reasons I and others have let their red cards lapse. With Colorado Front range as dry as it is though I am considering reupping that for the chance to get some good action this year.....

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

This is all good, no down side, I fail to see how anyone is against the new trained leadership to recharter requirement. I can only assume those who opposed this change are the type who so strongly oppose change that they have to be made to flip the desk calendar to the next day. Change is the only constant

[perdidochas 658]

The only reason to resist this requirement is perceived lack of value of training. I recently participated in an IOLS training, and frankly, thought it was a waste of my time. I learned nothing new, except for finding about some good camping spots from other participants. Admittedly, there were many in my training that needed the information, but having been an active Webelos Den Leader (and participated in all required training for it, including Outdoor Webelos Leader training and BALOO) for 3 yrs, as well as having done quite a bit of camping as a Scout and with my family, I was bored. I'm a committee member, and mainly took the training so that if an ASM is needed in the future, I can step up to it. Currently we have enough ASMs, so I will stick to the committee.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Last month my council announced manadatory training for the unit leader this year. (Cubmaster, Scoutmaster and such)

 

 

This month they announced manadatory Wilderness First Aid training on any outing more than an hour from a hospital ER (that's 16 hours training good for two years) MINIMUM $50 cost to be paid by the unit or the individual.

 

 

I can hardly wait to find out what they have in mind for next month.

 

 

Frankly, I'm all in favor of training, but not selling mandatory training to volunteers.

[BrotherhoodWWW 10]

Interesting, I just heard from a Council VP this last weekend that National is backing away from required training or "trained" leader status as a condition of recharter. The first thought was to roll back the date a year but instead they choose to abandon the idea all together. Although I advocate training I am bothered by the quality and need for much of the materials presented. I believe that we are not teaching the right topics in our training. SM/ASM misses so much IMHO of what new leaders need to know.

[sherminator505 10]

I think that much of the problem stems from the fact that you are dealing with volunteers. It is easy to require training for personnel under your employ as a condition of employment. It is another matter to place similar requirements on folks who are already donating their time to the movement and occasionally having to take leave from their real jobs to do so.

 

If you want to have trained volunteers, you must first convince them that it is a worthwhile exercise. Then you need go back that up by providing training that is clearly relevant to their Scouting jobs. Finally, you must deliver the training efficiently so that the time requirements are minimized. (Read: why separate leader specific and IOLS?)

[ScoutBox 11]

Good point Sherminator. I have been battling with this for a year. Now I am an ADC for my District Area, and pushing District and Council to bring training closer to my area. Looks like I'll have it started with OA Ordeal. then it's Adult Training, IOLS etc.. this Fall..

[moosetracker 132]

scoutbox - I am the District Training chair for a very long district. I would love to give the Northern parts of the district training closer, but to do so I need people willing to be trainers that live in the north.. No one will do so, so the best I can offer is some of my training in in the middle of the area, some is in the Southern where my trainers all live.. Problem is that for Training starting at 8am.. Trainers have to be there 1 hour earlier, to prep and be ready for people who come early. To be at a place at 7 am but need to drive 1.5 to 2 hours to be there means getting up around 5am.. On top of that you have to find a place that you can get free of charge to train in within an area that you know nothing at all about..

 

My trainers for my comming up training are complaining about haveing to drive to the middle of our district. Because of the time they have to get up to get there.

[ScoutBox 11]

Moosetracker- I had to fly to an hour to take IOLS. I Drove 9 hours one way to attend Wood Badge. I drove another 8 hours one way to teach IOLS. I drove 9 hours one way to Become a Trainer, and be at our SAC. OA Ordeal is a two hour drive for me this year. but due to timing with be 8 hours for my boys to attend at another camp. I will be Staff at WB this year another 9 hour one way drive. Last Council Camporee I brought my troop to was 11 hours one way. UC Course was one day training, two days of driving, and I had to pay for a hotel for two nights. Driving great distance to train is something I'm trying to cut out for the leaders in my area. I've done it, and understand the time and cost. By getting the training brought to my area, which my District and Council are working to help me do, will bring more OA members into the Lodge, more trained leaders in to the District. More contact with Council. No easy task here. I had one adult in my Troop who was in the Philipinnes, and they had to fly to Japan to do any training. Again I understand the problems with adults not training because of the distance. But when the training is just down the road, then this is crazy. I wish all I had to do was get up early on a Saturday morning and make the 2 hour drive to training.. instead, I have to get up early the day before and spend 8 to 9 hours on the road to get there the night before. And what's even more funny about my situation, is I'm not the farthest who will drive. Just in this WB Course Staff, their is one staffer who will have to fly 10 hours to make it.And she's not the only one. there are several who will have to fly in, or drive father then I do. I think only one staffer will only have to make the short drive of 20 mins. I am lucky to have dedicated people in my Council. People willing to get out there and get the training to get the job done. To help out one another, and help bring the best program possible to the boys. When I see a map on most Council websites, and the farthest one would have to travel to do anything is 2 hours, just isn't good enough a reason to not get trained.. My district alone is a 14 hour drive. One district here is a three day drive from top to bottom. And the Trainers have been making these trips..