Must a new cub MEMORIZE the requirements for Bobcat....

[WestCoastScouter 10]

For the Bobcat Badge... it states the requirments are for the boy to "Learn and Say" the Cub Scout Promise, and to "Say" the Cub Scout Motto, and Law of the Pack, and to "Tell" what Webelos means.

 

We have a disagreement with DL's. Does that mean that the boy must MEMORIZE it (with helpful promting), or enough that he repeats it outlound.

 

I know that boy needs to go over what it MEANS with his parent, and lets assume for this discussion that this discussion with parent has been completed.

[Eagle92 110]

if memoryu serves, the literature and training materials say the scout is to "DO YOUR BEST", so as long as an honest effort is made, and he knows it with a little prodding, he is good to go!

[WestCoastScouter 10]

The idea of doing your best, after working on it with mom and dad, and with some prompting... is that I do.

 

So more clearly.... another DL just says, "Raise you hand in the cub scout sign and REPEAT AFTER ME..." There is no memorization at all required. Is this too little ??

[eghiglie 10]

If he can do it with memorizing great.

 

We had a poster board with the words on it and they could glance at it. This even occurred at the troop level.

 

The big shock to the kids, no matter what the age, is that they are expected to live the words.

[shortridge 184]

Realistically: Most kids at this age have memorized the Pledge of Allegiance (albeit with some quirks - "invisible, with liberry and justish for all"). They know their ABCs and can count. Unless a boy has a learning disability of some sort, there's no real reason why they can't memorize these things with enough helpful, encouraging practice. (The key being helpful! - not mom and dad or the DL browbeating him every time he screws up.)

 

A DL and CM can help by making them part of the den and pack meeting openings. If everyone else around you is repeating the words, you'll pick it up really quick.

[bear dad 13]

I'll put some imput as well, now this ONLY MINE! I am a DL our den as a group before meeting starts says all of the oaths, signs, etc.. I ask each boy seperatly here and there if they can do by themselves, some have, some have not. I want make sure they know it word for word, not beating them up on it, if they get a word wrong fine.

Like I said some has got it down and they got there badges, have 2 more that will get there next pack meeting, and 2 more following. I also agree with shortridge, they learn other things why not this?

Again not nick pickin each little word, in time it will come like all things. just my take on it.

[Scoutfish 16]

Here is what we did: While not "over rewarding" the kids for doing something, we had a bag of Dum Dum suckers and those red and white peppermint candies. For those two den meetings, when a cub that was called on got a part of the promise right...he got a piece of candy.

 

We only did that for two consecutive den meetings. That was at the beginning of last year when they were wolves. You can't find one Bear who doesn't know the promise, oath, and motto in their entirety.

 

One thing though... There is a difference between not knowing, and suffering from "Deer in headlight" syndrome.

My son knew the promise well. He'd walk around the house saying it to himself all day.

But if you stood him in front of the other scouts... he went totally blank!

[dg98adams 18]

In my experience as ADL & CM, the Cub Oath, Law and Motto was done so often, the Cubs knew it. I may have to prompt a Tiger, but by the time they were Bears 99% had it solid.

 

So, repetition (see it, read it, say it, talk about it, play games with it) is the key when they are in the early ranks.

[Oak Tree 15]

Barring exceptional cases, my answer is yes, the Cub Scouts must memorize it. It says "learn and say", and it's not that hard to learn. Make it fun, repeat it some number of times, give them hints on how to remember it, and they can pretty much all do it.

 

I agree the motto is "Do your best", but it's my opinion that for most kids, doing their best to memorize the promise means that they will... actually... memorize... the... promise. First grade Sunday School teachers give rewards for memorizing Bible verses, this isn't any harder.

[ScoutNut 147]

For Cub Scouts BSA has two main rules -

 

1) Do your best - That means the BOYS best, not the den leader's, CM, or anyone else's best.

 

2) Parents are Akela - Parents are their son's main leader. They are the judge of when their son has indeed done his best. Den leaders should not question, or second guess, when a parent has signed off on a Tiger, Wolf, or Bear Cub Scout requirement. There is NO TESTING of the Cub Scout after a requirement has been signed off.

 

If the Promise, Law, Motto, Sign, and Salute are used every week at their den meetings, are practiced at home, and the parents sign off on the Bobcat requirements, their should be no problem at all.

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

For me, I work on memorizing the Promis and LotP with my Tigers every week. However once they can give a good rendition, sometimes with prompting, and UNDERSTAND what it means, I sign them off if the parent hasn't already.

 

 

[GKlose 24]

When I came back into the program when my oldest son became a Tiger Cub, there is a lesson that stuck with me from reading his Tiger Cub handbook: they aren't called requirements, they are called achievements, they are not pass/fail, and it is our responsibility to put our Cubs into a position to succeed.

 

I don't think it can get much simpler. Active Cub Scouts will have plenty of opportunities to repeat the promise and the law of the Pack, etc. If they struggle, is there any harm in repeating it with them? Isn't the real value in teaching them not to memorize a bunch of words (like the Pledge of Allegiance) but rather to teach them what it really means and why we recite them so often?

 

Guy

 

 

[Oak Tree 15]

I think there is value in teaching the young kids that there is something to be gained by meeting a standard. They get some sense of accomplishment from actually doing it. If they see the other kids all getting rewarded for not meeting the standard, they learn that they don't actually have to try all that hard.

 

Look, there are all kinds of times when Cub Scouts get rewarded for doing their best, and don't have to meet any real standard. And that's fine with me. But we're talking about the Cub Scout Promise. It's the one basic thing they're supposed to learn, and it's not that hard.

 

Is there any real harm in not making them learn it? Probably not. Not any more than in not holding any Scout to any other standard.

[GKlose 24]

I'm not sure if I didn't express myself well, or you are twisting my point --

 

The issue is not the relative difficult of memorization, because I think we'd all agree that barring any learning disability problems, it probably isn't unreasonable for a Cub to memorize something.

 

The issue is also not the standards to which we hold Scouts in general, because in general the standards are coded into the program (requirements, for example).

 

No matter how it is spun, you probably aren't going to be able to convince me that setting a STANDARD where Cubs are REQUIRED to MEMORIZE anything or else they FAIL is a good idea, when this is completely contrary to the intention of the program (unless, of course, the Tiger Cub handbook has changed in the last 7 years or so). I believe they are termed achievements, not requirements (and that language was specifically chosen for a reason), and the standard is universal: Do Your Best, and the Tiger Cub Handbook is pretty specific about our responsibility as Akela, which is to put our Cubs into a position to succeed. There is absolutely no mention in the handbook about setting a unit-imposed standard on anything.

 

I'm not an unreasonable person, and I'm not looking to hand out awards for nothing. In fact, an old friend of mine gave me a lesson on self-esteem: she said "nobody ever gains self-esteem by being handed anything, they get it by accomplishing something." I'm just saying it can be done fully within the program intentions, without a unit-imposed standard, required performance levels and a pass/fail mentality.

 

Guy

[DeanRx 69]

Everyone needs to look at what ScoutNut has posted.

 

We can debate the merits of having Tigers memorize(or other ranks for that matter - all new cubs must 1st earn the Bobcat, even if they join in their Web II year), but its not our place to say it must be memorized.

 

In cubs, they have achievements. The requirement for completing an achievement is to "Do your best" and have the Akela sign off on the achievement. This is then reported to the DL and in turn the DL reports to the CM that a cub has met the achievements for a given rank.

 

The DL and CM (or any other adult in a leadership posistion) are not encouraged and are in fact prohibited by BSA national guidelines from "testing" the scout in any wasy shape or form. Cubs does not have Cubmaster's conferences, DL conferences, or BOR's for this very reason.

 

Bottom line - if Mom or Dad or Grandma signs off on the achievement, you (as a unit leader) are to consider it completed. If you want to encourage retention, then its a good idea to incorporate the oarth, law, etc... into your meeting openning and closing as repetition works well with kids of this age.

 

Its not a big issue with the Bobcat, but what happens (as did a year ago in our pack) when some of the parents (some committee members included) began to question if a couple of the WEB II put in for their AOL had actually completed all the requirements. I (as CM) did some research and more than a little soul searching.

 

I discovered (to both my relief and dismay) that the issue was out of my hands. If a parent signed off on it and the WEB II DL was willing to attest to it - I am not allowed to question it - period.

 

Again, one can debate ad nauseum the damage done to a youth who's parent's are willing to let an achievement slide, just to make sure their son gets AOL before aging into Boy Scouts. I personally would argue that parents doing such are doing a grave disservice in the raising of their son, the least of which is the worries about 'cheating' to get a rank in scouting. Not to mention they are really setting the boy up for failure in Boy Scouts, when there are things such as BOR's to insure the tasks for a rank are actually learned and retained (at least long enough to regurgitate them at the BOR).

 

To require a cub to memorize the achievements for Bobcat is contrary to the guidance given by BSA on the matter and is in fact "adding to the requirements". Thus, it should not be done as a requirement for awarding the rank.

 

IMHO - it SHOULD be done throughout the cub's career, not only to serve to aid the lad in learning the words, but also as a way of emphasizing the EXPECTATION that the boy do his best at all times to live up to those promises he has made to himself in front of his parents, Akelas, and friends.

 

encourage memorization - yes

require it before awarding the rank - no