GopherJudy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 When I was around 9 or 10 years old, I would use my father's pocketknife & carve a bow & arrow out of small tree branches. I would carve off all of the bark, notch the ends of the "bow", tie string & shoot the arrow I made. I don't remember how well it worked but I did have fun making them! Now for my question! I am a Den Leader for Webelos I's & we will be going on a den campout in June or July. My boys have earned their Whittling Chip & I was wondering if they were allowed to "whittle" a bow & arrow like I did when I was a child! Is this allowed or not? Thanks. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Here's the rub. Cubs are not allowed to participate in shooting sports unless it's on a supervised range with a qualified range-master. Allowing the boys to make weapons and then let them round around camp with them is an invitation for some serious problems. Same would apply with the boys making sling-shots. Not a suggestion I would want to make to my boys, even on the Boy Scout level. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherJudy Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks Stosh! It's good to get input/ideas from others. I don't remember how well the bow & arrow that I carved worked, I think the arrow maybe went about 2 feet! That idea is scrapped! I'll think of something else for them to carve or whittle! If you have ideas I'd like to hear them! Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 simple Neckerchief slides. Basswood is easy to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKat Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Have them carve hiking sticks. Always popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 "Gee Haw Whimmy Diddle" see http://www.mugwumps.com/whammy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narraticong Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hand carved bows and arrows would no more be a weapon than the pocket knives used to carve them. An object only becomes a weapon when we use it as such. I think most boys (and apparently a few girls) of a certain age probably made similar bow and arrows. And like the one Judy fondly remembers, few of them probably worked well enough to be considered a weapon! Boys crave adventure, just look at the video games they play. Carving bow and arrows might just provide a little bit of fantasy adventure for Webelos age boys. Take the opportunity to work on carving skills. Maybe learn how to make a bow string (it's pretty simple). Teach responsibility and good judgment with a lesson on only shooting them at targets. I see lots of potential with this idea. Some may make a case for the shooting sports rule. But I doubt these home made bows would really meet the criteria. Neckerchief slides and hiking sticks are nice, safe, uncontroversial ideas. But s steady diet of that sort of thing will surely chase your boys away. A great read is "The Dangerous Book for Boys". I think I have the title right. I recently received a BSA Handbook from the 1930's as a gift from a dear friend. It is chock full of adventure tales. Stories of knights and frontier adventurers run throughout. Scouting was clearly sold during its pinnacle years as a source of adventure for boys. Sadly today, BSA is selling soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I still stand by my point, but agree that we have watered down the adventure of scouting in many ways. Yes, we did a lot more adventurous things when we were younger, and yes, there were accidents. People back then would write off much of those things as boys being boys. However, with the first phone call to a lawyer then to the scout leader, things have changed. Walking sticks like whitling knives, they too, can be thought of as weapons, but many of those types of things go a long way in teaching boys to handle knives, sticks, etc. in appropriate ways. A handmade bow allows for an additional problem in that it is specifically made to be a weapon, a whitling knife and walking stick are not. Yes, when I pulled back on my first bow, it shattered and I was not wearing eye protection, but I was lucky. There will others that won't be. There are a few professionals out there that will advise everyone, "Don't try this at home!" But it always takes me back to the question, just where did these professionals learn it then if not "at home?" Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm with Narraticong, boys dream of this stuff, help them make the dreams real. I think this is a great idea I wished I would have thought of. Some folks look at bows as tools, then there are those who only see weapons. So let the scouts carve the bows and then take the group to a range to learn safety and shoot their hand made bows and satisfy the can't do folks. I like the idea of teaching a little history and learning how to make strings as well. This could be a great project. Good Job Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GopherJudy Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks everyone for your input & ideas! Since I have 1 mom who's a little overprotective & worries that her son my get Lyme Disease from going camping! I will ask the parents if they have any issues with making them before I say anything to my boys about the bows & arrows. I'll be 52 in May & "back then" girls weren's supposed to do sports, carving, etc.; I was a "tomboy" as I liked playing sports, etc.! We also used our imaginations more too! This might be a silly questions but with carving a hiking stick is there anything specific to do for the "handle" part? At times words escape me so I might not use the correct word! Should they make a grip for the handle & that could count as a non-wood project for Craftsman? YIS JUdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narraticong Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just to pick a little more... My 12 year old son has studied Martial Arts for six years. He especially likes training with weapons. He is an expert in the art of Bojutsu. Guess what that is? A hardwood stick approximately six feet in length and 1.5 inches thick. Sound at all familiar? Put a hiking stick in his hand and he can take out three attackers before they can nock an arrow! On the other hand, to him a bow and arrow are no more than sporting tools. It's all in perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The issue is not the bow/arrow, stick, gun, knice, the issue is the maturity level of the boy. I put military assault rifles and raw blackpowder in the hands of my Venturing boys, but I would never consider such a move for any Cub Scout. That is why Cubs are limited to: Cub Scout Shooting Sports Shooting sports provide fun and adventure for boys. Archery and BB gun shooting teach skills, discipline, self-reliance, sportsmanship, and conservation, all of which are elements of good character valued by Scouters. Archery and BB-gun shooting are restricted to day camps, Cub Scout/Webelos Scout resident camps, council-managed family camping programs, or council activities where there are properly trained supervisors and all standards for BSA shooting sports are enforced. Archery and BB-gun shooting are not to be done at the den or pack level. Archery and BB gun shooting belt loops and pins may be earned only at the camps and activities listed above. These programs are designed to emphasize safety and marksmanship development under the direction of trained range officers using nationally approved instructional methods." I would also assume that the supervisors are also looking closely into the equipment used on the ranges and I wouldn't bet a whole lot of money on hand-made bows as being appropriate to the safety of all on the range. When in doubt, check with G2SS and your Council and in this case, the range-master who will be supervising the boys. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrp1488 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 In order for the bow to have enough flex, it needs to be made from green wood. Make sure you get it from your own property and not someone elses or public property. "Scout leader fined for carving tree in state park" would not make a good headline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Judy, Some people do prefer to put soft or leather "grips" on the upper parts of their hiking sticks. Some prefer rope loops or leather thongs that you can loop around your forearm (similar to contemporary trekking poles). Some people say you should wrap it in rope, which can then be used for emergencies. Personally, I'd be skeptical of using it for rescues, because my hands sweat a lot and that damages the rope. They can also decorate them with metal medallions - there are plenty of Scout ones around. But it really depends on the interests and style of the boys. Have them test-drive a couple models first. Kudu has a good page with practical uses for staves that might interest your boys: www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/staff_use.htm(This message has been edited by shortridge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The staves my boys use are closet rods 6' long with a hook in one end. They end up tying parachute cord onto it and then with a series of half hitches create a nice grip. Traditionally these can be used for patrol flag staffs. The hook allows them to hang them from trees rather than lying them around on the ground, which if wearing a pack is a pretty dumb idea. The hook also allows them to pull down white pine branches higher than anyone else can reach for fire starting. The boys have taken up the practice of using a magnifying glass to burn in the staves lines at each 1-foot interval and the top most foot includes lines at 1-inch intervals. This facilitates the measurement requirements in the field. They then add dates and places of camps, events, etc. with their magnifying glasses as well. For first aid, two of the boys and their coats have an instant stretcher with sufficient wood to support any of their fellow scouts. When it comes to patrol lashings? Well, they have plenty of poles for that as well. The boys form tripods with hooking their hooks together in front of their tents and thus mark their patrol areas with their flag, all of which can be quickly retrived which would not be possible if the staves are lashed. Stosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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