Note to Boy Scouters: Your Meetings Look Boring To Cubbers

[scoutldr 732]

Where does it say that kids must be entertained and "have fun" every waking moment? I think that's the problem...today's kids (and parents) think that if they are not having fun and thoroughly "psyched" about an activity, it's a waste of time. Every BOR, I ask the question, "what would you do to make the troop better?". Answers are "more camping", "more games", "no MB homework", and "less boring meetings". I tell them that the guy who can fix that for them is in the mirror...go talk to him. Activities won't happen unless they plan it. And that sometimes means sitting down around a table and talking about the boring details. Preparing them for life? YOu betcha. If all parents want is entertainment, then let them sit home with their Xbox.

[scoutldr 732]

Sorry ... double post again.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[gwd-scouter 11]

Nice replies so far to ItsMe post. I will add that our troop meetings are sometimes boring affairs, at least they would seem so by Webelos Scouts and parents visiting. On the other hand, some of our meetings would be seen as out-of-control. Simply another side to the boy-led troop. Last week and this upcoming week, our Scouts are covering first aid requirements T-1st class.

 

Last week, one of our younger Scouts was put in charge of covering some of the Tenderfoot and 2nd class first aid requirements. Yes, he stood in front of the group and mostly read from the Scout handbook. A couple of gentle nudges by me that he should perhaps include some demonstration of what he was talking about got things rolling along better.

 

Of course as an adult and former CM, I could have taken over the meeting and come up with a lot of fun stuff to go with the instruction - but that's not my job as SM.

 

I was very impressed with this Scout. True, he read from the book a lot. But, this was the first time he was in charge of something. His first time teaching a skill. The first time he stood at the front of the room.

 

You see, he wanted to run for SPL but no one voted for him because he usually is disruptive during meetings and pays little attention to those in charge.

 

After the meeting I complimented him on the job he did. He said, "I wanted to show that I could be in charge so maybe I can be elected SPL next time."

 

Now, that's what it's all about.

 

Edit to add: We only have one patrol in our troop because it's so small and in reality the SPL is the PL (but they like the title of SPL better). Anyway, they do have a patrol name, flag and cheer - Kung Foo Falcons! Yep, they sing their cheer "we are the Kung Foo Falcons" to the tune of the Kung Foo Fighting song.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[Its Me 10]

 

I will say that Lisabob nailed the issues. My expectations were too high. I may have expected a derivation of a cub scout meeting (to be honest ours pack meeting aren't all that great. I did expect more spirit and life in the scouts. The scout master, no complaints a nice guy and didn't look at me as though he was sizing me up. The ASM, nice guy spent a lot of time with our Webelos.

 

But it really looked liked like a civic association meeting, with an opening pledge and then down to business so we can get out on time. I disagree with the poster who wrote that this is the forum we use to prepare kids for adulthood. One or two mondane meetings as a young adult prepared me to meet the challenges of boring meetings for the rest of my life. My 11 year does not need to sit through boring meetings to learn how the adult world works.

 

I feel for the young SPL who was running the meeting, he knew what to say and said it. He cannot be compared to an adult cubmaster who has been leading the show for a couple of years. That's not a fair comparison and he is off the hook. However, as an institution this troop had no charm.

 

Should this Troop be what I expect? If so I will quit looking and settle on this troop accepting that mondane meetings are the norm for weeknight Boy Scouts meetings. They are something to be endured between campouts. If the replies are that no, we sing, yell and cheer and work in some fun while training our boys, then I will hold out hope that there are trrops out there that will better meet my expectations.

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Its Me,

 

FWIW, the time for a Web DL to be looking at troops (sans the kids) and talking with Scoutmasters begins after bridging the year before, by way of discussions with SMs at District RT.

 

Visits to summer camp, visits to troop meetings, without the pressure of the kids behind you help the DL discover what's out there.

 

The more you sample, the better the validity of the assessment

[GernBlansten 10]

We lost a family from our unit last year due to this scenario. Father was a previous CM and just couldn't understand why we gave the scouts so much latitude at meetings. He finally just had enough and left in a huff. Old timers in our unit mentioned that they have seen this before and that DLs and CMs had the hardest time getting used to a boy led unit.

 

Our committee huddled and recognized we didn't do enough to set expectations for newly crossed over parents, especially those involved in leading cubs. This year, we are making an effort to pull those parents aside and explain our program (we think its the BSA one) vs. the ideal cub program. We have some great new parents who were instrumental in their cub programs. I hope they too can make the transition.

[gwd-scouter 11]

ItsMe, it is always difficult to read one's intent in the printed word so I sure do hope your post about comparing a young SPL to an adult Cubmaster wasn't a slam against me. My post was not intended to convey that I thought a 13 year old should be compared to an adult when making a presentation to the Troop.

 

Anyway, something I've noticed - and again it may not be your intention - but your posts all mention what You are looking for in a troop, that You were bored, etc. Your boys may have been bored at the meetings you visited as well, I just don't get that read from your posts.

 

I can say that in my earlier days with the Troop, I too found meetings to be boring and mundane. My sons did not share the same view. Admittedly, I was coming in as a former Cubber and it took me quite a while to understand the really enormous difference in Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting. Looking back, I am very glad I did not share with my sons my (then) negative view of Boy Scout Troops. If I had, the probably would have quit and missed out on all the fun.

 

What we as adults may view as mundane meetings to be endured before a campout, are not necessarily seen that way by the boys involved.

 

I do agree that Troop meetings should not be all business all the time. It bothers me too that I know of a few troops in my area in which the adults lecture and pontificate throughout almost the entire meeting (actually, ours was like that several years ago). Sometimes a skill instruction may take an entire meeting, especially if being led by a younger, more inexperienced Scout. Then again, perhaps the boys decide they just want to play Ultimate Frisbee for a meeting (similar to prarie's goof off night). If a Webelos Den Leader/parent and their sons showed up for both of these meetings, naturally the Frisbee meeting would seem more fun. But, it would not be an accurate reflection of the Boy Scout Troop any more than the meeting-long skill instruction would be.

 

I apologize that I am not as eloquent as some of the others on this forum and I wish you luck in your search for a troop.

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I have always struggled with a model to follow when Cubs come calling to the Troop. Do we have a program just for the Cubs? Which is dishonest because thats not the format we follow, or do we have a regular meeting with little or no explanation of what it is we are trying to accomplish that night. One thing we do is be sure the attendning parent has an adult leader "assigned" to them. They are introduced and the adult, interprets the meeting. Explains what's happening anf why. It separates the youth from the adult and the leader can explain the troops inner workings such as dues, meeting nights, communication netsworks, phone and email of the leaders, all the nuts and bolts of the Troop's administration. If you have a First Class First Year emphasis the leading adult and his troop guides would be a good bet to explain how a First Year Patrol would be integrated into the troop. Remeber, the BSA model suggests that a troop have 3 programs, one for the First Year Patrol, Regular Patrols and Venture Patrols

 

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by

 

By definition, the Troop will most likely not have First Year Patrol when you vist just prior to joining the Troop as the newest scouts have been with the Troop almost 12 full months.

 

 

I realize there is a huge difference between Boy and Cub Scouts, but if your contention is that Boy Scouts need to learn to sit down and shut up, why have a program? They can learn to sit down and shut up at School and a dozen other places. If Scouting is not fun for the boy, why would he return? Not every meeting is a riotous kneeslapper fest, but if meetings dont have some element of fun, somehow a point is being missed.

[Lisabob 13]

Its Me, I was thinking about your previous thread regarding the other three troops you visited. Keeping in mind that it is a little tough to compare a campout to a troop meeting, still, how do you think Troop 4 stacks up against Troops 2 and 3? Maybe you should visit 2 & 3 during a regular meeting and (if you still have time) visit Troop 4 during an outing. If that's not an option at this point, I don't think there's anything wrong with ASKING Troop 4's leaders (youth leaders too) how they do things on camp outs and whether things are more lively then. You might get some interesting answers.

 

A couple of folks have pointed out that there's no such thing as a perfect troop. Wherever you go, once you are fully familiar with the troop and their strengths and weaknesses, there's probably somewhere that your talents can be put to good use in each of these troops. In the meantime - if you really are having a tough time deciding (and that's what it sounds like?) - let you son choose. In all likelihood, troops 2, 3, and 4 will each give your boy a good, though somewhat different, experience. And it isn't as though he couldn't switch later on if it turns out not to be a good match for him.

 

[evmori 11]

I know someone posted this before but I had to chime in. Troops don't cut & paste & do crafts. Packs do. Big difference. When we knew there were WEBELOS coming to visit, we had things for them to do. The guys dug out the rope machine & showed the WEBELOS how to make rope! No cutting & pasting or crafts! And the WEBELOS usually like it!

 

Troops are way different from Packs.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob 13]

Ed, you're absolutely right of course. Troops are way different from packs. But with respect, the "cutting and pasting and crafts" comment comes across as condescending, at least IMO. Its Me wasn't asking about doing crafts, he was asking about scout spirit as evidenced by patrol flags, yells, etc.. These are not the same. As a former cub leader I recall getting really fed up with this sort of response to a legitimate question! It appears to trivialize the cub program and the experience and concerns of cub leaders, as if "big boy scout leaders" knew better. Well I guess you can see I am still a little fed up with that attitude although it has been 2 years since I've been a cub leader. But please, cub leaders deserve respect - not patronizing attitudes.

[eghiglie 10]

Well I admit that the Troop meetings I see are different, but I don't call them boring. The boys (meaning the scouts) run the meeting for the most part with an opening flag, training, patrol meeting, game time, closing flag. The boys are learning skills that they need in a classroom. There is no perfect Troop yet, as all the folks in the Troop leaders and youth usually PAY MONEY to be there.

 

Training is training unless the boys are profesinal trainers there is little that they know how to jazz it up. Then after the training is over the student usually has to demonstrate that they can do the item taught. Imagine trying to jazz up totin chip by throwing axes!!!!

 

Patrol meetings are collecting dues, discussing menus and activities and boys get intrested in that becuse its what they are going to eat and who they get to bunk with in the tents.

 

But Lisabob is right, cub leaders deserve quite a bit of respect, although cut and paste seems childish to older boys in a troops its really a needed activity in cubs because the motor skills are not developed yet. Those cut and paste skills develop those motor skills so that the kids can make rope when they get older. Even a year makes a difference on having the boy properly whip a rope from a 9 year old to a 10 year old. Lots of times its the blue tab leader getting the kids ready for red tab world as best as possible in 1 hour a week. Also, its the Cub leaders making the arrangements to visit troops because they want the kids treated right.

 

Having finished with cubs we, the leaders, did have more work to keep there attention with different things every meeting.

 

But I've also seen quite a number of boy scouts that can't tie the knot once they pass the scoutmaster conference for the rank.

 

 

[Novice_Cubmaster 10]

Hang on, let me wipe the paste off my fingers...

 

Actually, I don't think Webelos expect to visit a troop meeting and be entertained, have fun, or see a more "sophisticated" version of a pack meeting.

 

They do expect to see something interesting.

 

Last year, one troop visit coincided with a review of how to pack for a backpacking trip. The Scout doing the review went over the equipment needed, what not to bring & how to pack your pack. The Web's were absolutely spellbound (and more than a few Scouts in the troop learned something as well). Another troop visit was mostly observing a business meeting. But between these 2 visits, the Web's got a pretty good idea of what they might expect when they crossed over.

 

And, they mostly crossed into the troop that did the "business meeting", because that troop had more cool outings planned. But they probably wouldn't have paid attention on the 2nd troop visit if it weren't for the first visit firing up their interest.

 

Now, where are my popsicle sticks and pipe cleaners...

 

NC

[Jeffrey H 25]

"Lots of times its the blue tab leader getting the kids ready for red tab world as best as possible in 1 hour a week."

Thank you.  As a Den Leader & Assistant Cubmaster, my weekly den meetings along with other Pack meetings and events can become a little tiring by mid-season.  Did I also mention Roundtable and the occassional Pack leaders meetings?  Don't forget the training courses that we are asked to give up time for.  We also have to endure restrictive rules about Cub camping that don't always make sense, but we follow them to the letter. 

Everything has to be planned and directed by parents that care enough about the cub program.  It's all worth it to me, but I can understand how some den leaders and cubmasters get burned-out on the Cub program when they don't have adequate support from parents or assistants.

Cub leaders are a different breed.  We have no knots on our shirts and if we do earn any knots, we forget to turn in the paperwork.  Why?  Because it's not about the knots, it's about the boys.  That said, I will admit that the knots are a little motivator to keep it going when things get a little tedious.

[gwd-scouter 11]

LisaBob is absolutely correct in that Cub Leaders deserve respect, as do we all that volunteer our time and effort to the BSA.

 

Be careful Jeffrey H. I'm sure your intention in your post was not to imply that we Boy Scout Leaders are a somehow inferior "breed" and just a bunch of knot wearing, paper pushing, only one hour a week types!

 

:-)