Scouts who leave outing early.

[Gutterbird]

There are times a boy may have to leave a campout early because of other family or school commitments which I have no problem with; however, we have a boy in our troop that always leaves after the first night of a two night, weekend campout. His father is a committee member and attends these campouts with his son. The problem I have with him always leaving before the end is he gets out of the cleanup and other boys are now catching on and asking why this boy leaves. This is not just one or two campouts, but every campout. I discussed this with the father and the fathers reply is that once all the fun stuff is done on Saturday, they just go to bed, get up Sunday morning, break camp and go home, usually on the road by 11am. I always inquire as to why they want to leave early and this boy comes right out and says that all the fun stuff is over. I have discussed scout spirit with the boy and father, and the importance of staying the second night and help with the breaking of camp Sunday morning. The father is your classic example of a helicopter parent and what ever little Johnny wants, little Johnny gets. What really got me chapped was that on our last night of summer camp, which is family night, he wanted to go home with mom. At 10pm I get called to the camp office to sign the form so he can go home. His reply to me as to why, was that the fun was over; the last night was just going to bed and breaking camp. I had to bite my tongue as to not blow up at him in front of his mom, I talked with his dad about it, who was also at camp with us. The father stayed the last night to help with the clean-up in Johnnys place. I am ready to start a policy that once at camp, you can not leave unless it is pre-arrange before camp starts or if in cases of emergencys or illness. How do other troops handle this situation? Oh, because of this situation, I feel the boy lacks scout spirit, therefore, until things change, he will not be advancing, agree?

[justmescout]

I agree with you, if Dad wants to set the example by allowing him to go home before his responsability to his patrol and his troop is over then I don't see why he should be able to have the fun at Court of honors or other advancement recognition events. He is not fulfilling the Scout Law or the Oath and definitly not showing Scout spirit.

[PeteM]

What Scout Spirit isn't he showing?

Is he showing good Scout spirit, or is he showing BAD Scout spirit?

 

The requirement states show Scout Spirit. It doesn't say what KIND of Scout spirit he has to show, does it?

 

One solution is to go a far distance to camp without the father (Let's see how well little Hubert can do without daddy).(This message has been edited by Petem)

[OldGrayOwl]

How about when they get up to go home, the rest of the troop does the same. Pack up early, with this cub type scout helping, wait for them to leave, and then have planned a fun activity on the way home WITHOUT him.

[Hal_Crawford]

Has your PLC considered planning fun activities for Sundays? One way to deal with this is to plan backpacking outings. It is harder to leave early when the car is five miles away. Also, when we backpack there is a firm rule that no one arrives late or leaves early because they have to carry their share of the patrol gear.

 

You might suggest to your SPL that this issue (but not the specific scout) should be discussed at the PLC meeting. They might come up with a solution. A policy about leaving early (or just about any troop issue) will be better if it comes from the PLC rather than from the adults. If Dad doesn't like it he should be reminded that it is a boy run troop.

 

Beyond that I would discuss this at the scout's next SMC and suggest that you are not ready to support him for a BOR. Make sure the CC and/or advancement chair knows of the issue and understand your possition. You can't prevent the scout from advancing in rank as SMCs aren't pass/fail but the BOR can. The success or failure of this approach depends on your relationship with the CC, AC and/or committee. Hopefully, the potential BOR members have heard an earful about this boy from their sons.

 

Good luck.

Hal

[kbandit]

Our troop has a couple of brothers who must be at church early on Sundays they get extra duties on Saturday as they will be gone before camp is tore down. They understand and do the duties. This works for our troop.

[Eagle92]

I also know of a few scouts who have to leave early due to their church commitments, and my son will be one of those shortly. As kbandit has suggested, since they are leaving the patrol in a lurch on sunday, then it is only right for him to get assigned extra duties.

 

I also think the best way to handle it, esp since dad is an enabler and a MC, is to let the PL and his patrol make the decision n how to handle it. The patrol method will solve this, and really as an adult we are not directly affected by this behavior, but the patrol is.

 

As for the few scout sI knwo who leave either saturday nite, or very early sunday, all of them feel guilty about leave the patrol, or in my dealings with them the OA chapter, behind. But a Scout is reverent, and I also go to the church they go to and understand.

[Eagledad]

>>Has your PLC considered planning fun activities for Sundays?

[shortridge]

First, *everyone* knows that Capture the Flag is best played at oh-dark-hundred on a Saturday night, not Sunday morning! :-)

 

Secondly, I think Hal's advice is dead-on - shift to a backpacking focus so that Scouts are out on the trail and a decent hike away from the cars on Saturday night. That'll either keep the Scout and the hoverdad with the rest of the group, or away from your outings altogether.

 

It's almost always far better to address a problem through program rather than making policies. Rules just pile on top of rules until you've got a whole big thick rulebook and very little fun.

 

Have you observed to the father the impact this has on the morale of the rest of the troop? I mean, why should they stick around if nothing fun's going on, either? Taking that a step further, why should they wash dishes or clean their tents or clean the latrine? That's not fun, so why should I have to do it? If the father can't recognize the damage this is doing, he probably shouldn't be on the committee.

[baschram645]

This is the time of year when the PLC should be planning the troops calendar for next year. Have them plan each month with a theme and an outing to coincide with the theme. Each meeting & outing would be set and the scouts would know what expect. The outings could be planned so as to have an activity Friday night (night hike or Astronomy MB) a Saturday AM & PM activity. Then a Saturday night activity (Capture the Flag or Fox & the Hounds). Sunday AM could be used to hold a scouts own service and then maybe a game period with patrol competion. Playing ultimate frisbee against the adults, a nature scavenger hunt or even a troop swim. Stopping on the way home at a taxidermy shop or maybe as mentioned a junk food stop.

 

The best way to stop this behavior is to see to it that there is something to do each day of the outing other than just work. The best way to do that is to plan and so that each scout wants to go let them plan and then the adults support their plan.

[eagle77]

Definetly have the PLC change it's entire program to accomidate this one boy. Jeez!! I have had boys who need to leave for other activities be them family, school or religious. They let me know this beforehand. Not when they want to leave. Part of being a Boy Scout is learning responsibilty, if all you are willing to do is have the rest of the troop alter their plans in order to try and keep this scout on the trip. What has this scout learned? Not a darn thing other then I get my way again. I guess that will prepare him for life won't it? The fact that the other scouts see this and have questioned it means maybe they should act on it. Have the scouts discuss it at the next PLC and see what they feel needs to be done. He and his parents are the problem not the other scouts.

[Twocubdad]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! This is a real hot button for me!

 

There are legit reasons for leaving early, so this is about the "just 'cause" reasons, which usually relate to the parents' convenience or poor planning.

 

We have three families (four Scouts) who very predictably leave campouts early. The one who really ticks me off is the dad who shows up unannounced Saturday afternoon to collect his son. He's well aware we don't like early departures so I think he's figured that coming unannounced means he doesn't have to hear about it and at that point there's not much we can do or say anyway. With the other two families, the dads will go on the campout the first night then make a big deal about "helping" their son "do his share of the work" so they can leave early. That just compounds the problem by having the dad in the middle of the patrol site interferring.

 

Gutterbird, I rather doubt that the Scout is the one who want to bug out. My experience is this is usually a parent-driven thing. It would be most incredibly self-centered for a Scout to really say he wants to leave because all the fun is over by Saturday. Rather I suspect that is just a good rationalization he's heard from his parents.

 

Problems with the parents need to be solved with the parents. You need to go directly to the parent and tell them they son leaving early causes problems for the rest of the patrol. No, there really isn't any way to "make up" for leaving early. There's a lot of work to be done and that it comes Sunday morning when everyone is cold/tired/dirty/sleep-deprived/grumpy, makes it that much worse. Let the parent know that they are putting their son in the position of being known as a slackard, which is a tough reputation to shake-off.

 

That's not to say I'm not above putting some pressure on the Scout too. Peer pressure can be a good thing, so work through the youth leaders to make sure they know they will be responsible for shouldering this guys part of the work. In you best Scoutmasterly way, ask the boy how he thinks always leaving early reflects on being Trustworthy, Loyal or Helpful? How does he think his patrol mates feel about being left with his share of the work? And the real coup de grace, "We'll discuss this again at your next Scoutmaster's Conference and Board of Review."

 

Then be sure you do.

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

Gutter, Best of luck with this, I don't envy you.

 

The boy would have a very hard time advancing at all in our Troop. We are also rude enough to tell each other when crap like this goes on that it is unacceptable.

Sounds like a topic for committee discussion.

 

When his birthday comes does he just eat the frosting or the whole cake.

 

I abhor selfishness!!!!!!!!

[prairie]

I hac a classmate who did something like this, evey meeting where we had to do some real work, like clean up the patrol equipment he would slip away, small town so only a few blocks to walk home He dropped out instead of mending his work-shy ways. Not much was ever said but we all knew who ducked out.

 

His patrol can't be happy bout this.

 

Maybe dad should stay home once since he won't attend the full event.

[Hal_Crawford]

"Sounds like a topic for committee discussion. "

 

No. They should probably not discuss this. No one is better at making bad policy for youth than a room full of parents. My experience has been that whenever issues like this go to the troop committee they respond by writing a policy. It usually involves everybody signing something. I am not sure how many acres of forest have been cleared for Committee mandated behavior agreements but I bet we could hold the Jamboree there.

 

I am not saying that you should keep them completely out of it. Here is what you do: Have the PLC discuss the issue and decide a course of action. Of course you will work with them to make sure that their solution is reasonable and in keeping with the Oath and Law. Be sure that they are addressing the problem, not the individual.

 

Assuming that the PLC solution is some sort of policy you then take it to the troop committee and say, this has been a problem, this is what the PLC has decided should be the policy, I support the PLC's decision and I expect that the troop committee will as well. It is probably a good idea to give the CC a heads up in advance as the kid's dad may come off the rails at this point.

 

One other point to consider. This kid may not really want to be in scouts and is only there because his dad says he should. If that is the case then you don't have a lot of leverage but maybe they will quit which just might be the best solution for the troop.

 

Hal