Eagle Project - Parent Funding

[Winston]

The Service Project Workbook states that the fundraising application is not necessary for projects funded only from the candidate or his parents. This implies parents can solely fund projects. My son has been told by his Scoutmaster that parents can not fund projects. Elsewhere in the offical sources (there are only 3 official sources) of policies and procedures, it states that councils/units/districts/individuals can not add requirements or ask you do anything which exceeds the policies, procedures or requirements of the BSA. It appears to me from reading the requirements that the information my son received from his Scoutmaster is incorrect. We would like to know others experiences and the correct approach. Note that my son's project is complex and will result in plenty of opportunities to show/experience leadership, planning, and development. Thank you

[Unkiewill]

Winston - You are correct. You need to show the Scoutmaster the highlighted box on page 3 of the workbook - "Only the Official Workbook May Be Used". It may be a case of him not being properly informed. If he still disagrees after seeing it in writing than I would go to the District Training Chair.

[Beavah]

Hiya Winston, welcome to da forums, eh?

 

Some of this sort of thing depends a bit on local interpretation, so your Scoutmaster may be right for your local area and the way it interprets things. Some folks discourage parents from "buying a project", because it impacts the extent to which a boy has to do the work that he learned about in Personal Management MB to budget and plan and make harder choices about resource use, or about goin' out and askin' folks in the community to contribute. It also can come across poorly to other fellows and families. A fundraising application form is not that big a deal, and is a good thing for your boy to think through and figure out.

 

Yeh can, I suppose, encourage your son to tell the SM and the district and the council to go blow and start quotin' guidebooks at 'em, but that's not always the best way to proceed.

 

I'd suggest that your son could mention the documents to the SM if there were a good moment that he could do so, but then that a better choice for him in terms of character and citizenship would be to follow the guidance of the fellow who has worked with him and cared about him for many years, rather than some anonymous characters his dad talked to on an internet forum. Even if we are cute, furry anonymous characters!

 

Please come back and tell us when we can celebrate another Eagle in our midst!

 

Kindest regards,

 

Beavah

 

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eamonn]

Sorry Beavah while I agree that quoting from anonymous sources is never a good idea.

I don't agree that the requirements for Eagle Scout rank are local.

Of course there are right ways and wrong ways of letting someone know that they are not right. But the fact remains the same. - They are not right.

 

Winston,

You are between a rock and a hard place.

It is important that you don't allow your feelings to get in the way of the relationship that your son has with his Scoutmaster.

While I'd like to think that any Lad who is starting to work on his Eagle Service Project is able to stand on his own two feet. I'm thinking maybe in this case that you having a quite informal meeting with the Scoutmaster where you share what you know with him and listen to what he has to say.

Might be the best thing to do.

I'm not in favor of you having your son telling his Scoutmaster that he has messed up.

I of course would hope that once the Scoutmaster finds out that he isn't right, that he will do the right thing and follow the requirements.

I also think that no matter what? This can all be sorted out within the Troop and if need be with the Troop Committee, without involving any outside people.

Beavah does make a very good point when he talks about Scoutmasters caring and taking care of the Scouts in their charge. As you go through this keep this in mind and try very hard not to put down or say any harsh words about this person who really does have your son's best interests at heart.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

While your SM should back off from making a blanket statement "that parents can not fund projects". There is a time that our Eagle Board will recommend it, and I think they are correct in doing so. That is when the project itself does not show enough leadership when presented by the Scout.

 

Without trying to figure out how to add more leadership into the project itself, by figuring out what else they can build, clear, clean whatever .. Or simply deny the scout his project and have him cool his heels another month with a better proposal.. The simplest thing is to suggest they could bring up the needed level of leadership by suggesting that the boy to hold a fundraiser or two to raise their own money for the project.

 

If he does not care for the idea, then he can go back and rework his idea to figure out how to add in the extra leadership himself.

[Lisabob]

I've been thinking about this too. What about the approach of lending money to the scout, with the understanding that he will work to pay it back (with specific plan by the scout to do so)? There's a scout in a local troop who is running up tight on his 18th birthday and his fundraising efforts have fallen significantly short of the goal. His parents are wondering if that's an acceptable reason to step in and help with the funding so that he can buy the materials and get on with the project.

 

Would those troops (like the OP's) who oppose outright parental funding of projects, be more comfortable with a loan approach?

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Loan is a horrible idea.....just what we need...get our scouts comfortable with debt.....

 

 

So what if he doesn't repay it???? You going to take him to small claims court to recover it???

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

I see no problem with your example LisaBob.. He led the fundraisers he planned to. (Therefore his leadership part of the project was met).. Did not produce the funds he planned to (so during the EBOR, he has something to state when asked "What did not go according to plan."

 

But, anyone can donate, so his parents could donate the funds. As far as I am concerned parent donation isn't any worse of a "life lesson" then a parent loan.

 

Whether scout will pay parents back or not, that I think should remain private between parent and son. If it gets entangled in the project, then someone could look at the project not being completed..

 

But to do that, the son would need to figure out how to pay back the loan on his own, it can not be a troop fundraiser to payback a loan on a project that has been completed. If that is what they are thinking, then the project is not completed..

[OldGreyEagle]

One of the reasons we got the new rules for Eagle projrcts was because of all the stupid, brain crushing add on ignorant baggage that Councils, Districts and Units piled on. Perhaps if "rules" were followed we wouldnt have the system we have now. There is nothing in BSA policy that says that the parents cannot fund an Eagle Project. The original poster asked a question and deserves a straight answer.

 

No, the unit cannot change the rules. How active you want to be in fighting the ignorance of a unit is up to the individuals. They are much better equipoed to decide to go along to get along than we

[SR540Beaver]

Local interpretation? Negative. Ask the SM to show you in black and white where such a rule is stated by the BSA. If it isn't stated, it isn't a a rule and the "local" folks can't change it. However, they will, and they will stick to their guns because that is what THEY have decided "Eagle" means. But if challenged, they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

There are all sorts of local interpretations that are flat out wrong. Some I've seen across our council's district are:

 

You cannot do a project for your charter organization because as a part of the CO you'd be benefitting scouting. That would be true if you were revamping the Scout room. It isn't true if you are erecting flag poles outsinde the church office.

 

You must build some sort of lasting structure. I've seen where kids have a project of contructing new trail and the district insists that they build benches along the trail. Thry just aren't happy unless you build something.

 

The scout must collect the reference letters and bring them to their BOR to provide to the folks sitting on the board. This is the ultimate in laziness on the board's part. The scout needs to ask for reference letters. Obvioously, he should ask people that he feels confident will do so. The boards concern is that they will not receive the letters and feel they can't hold the board without them. If the people asked do not send them, that should not be held against the scout. Forcing him to handle the letters is the easy way out.

 

The list could go on and on and on......

 

It is time like these where I appreciate our old friend Bob White. Bob read the documentation and applied a bit of logic to doing what it actually said instead of trying to decide what the author really meant when they wrote something.

[moosetracker]

Hmmm.. Our troop even had one that revamped the scout room (which was the common room of the church).. Simply it was still not to our benefit.. For scouting the old setup was better.. But it was revamped to the way the CO wanted it.

[CalicoPenn]

Winston,

 

Welcome to the forums!

 

You are reading the requirements correctly - an Eagle Project may be funded by the Scout or his relatives and there is nothing in any policies or rules that amends to with a "if allowed by your local council, district, unit - so yes, per the rules and regs, your son can't be forced to hold a fundraiser in order to complete the project.

 

The question is, how should this be handled. Beavah suggests it may be a local interpretation. He's right, it may very well be so now the question is where did that interpretation come from. Before going full bore against folks, the first thing to do is find out where it is coming from. The Scoutmaster may just be the messenger here - he may have gotten that from the District Advancement Chair who may have gotten it from the Council Advancement Chair. Or it may be something the Troop Committee decided. Whoever came up with it is still wrong, but before going full bore against the first person you hear it from, do some investigation first. Have a friendly chat with the Scoutmaster - yes, you can do this - sometimes it's hard for Adults to take questions about things like this from Youth. A simple question is all that needs to be asked - where did this come from? Don't ask him to show it to you in writing - just ask where he heard it from and be guided by that. If it's coming from your Unit, then you work with them to make sure they understand they can't make that kind of policy.

 

If it comes from District or Council, then ask them to show you, in writing, where they are allowed to make these kinds of rules and make them prove it up.

[SR540Beaver]

Moose, it would obviously depend. Our troop has been at the charter for over 45 years and has a dedicated room that only we use. We couldn't and shouldn't do an eagle project to put new paneling and carpet in our room. Building shelves or something for the nursey is a totally different thing. None of our scouts have babies in the nursery. In a situation where the troop and church shares a multi-use room, I think most BOR's would ask a few questions to clarify and approve it.

[NJCubScouter]

I can imagine where such a "rule" probably came from. Most likely, someone in Winston's district (and/or troop) paid a couple of thousand dollars for construction materials for their son's bridge or pavilion or whatever, and this didn't sit well with some people, so now there's a "rule" that is not authorized by national. If the parents had paid $50 or $100, nobody would have said anything -- and they often do, and nobody does. The total cost of my son's project (he wasn't building anything) was about $50 (not counting some safety equipment loaned by the local government department for which the project was done) and I footed the bill. And I still have five or six cheap plastic clipboards left over from the experience. (Not to mention a few more gray hairs, but that had nothing to do with the money part.)

[NJCubScouter]

I will resist the temptation to, again, mention the requirements that my council adds to what national requires for Eagle. (Including SR540Beaver's example of the Scout collecting the letters and bringing them to the BOR, and several others.) Fortunately our council does not seem to have a "rule" similar to the one from Winston's troop, and actually they are pretty good about which projects are approved and not approved. (Meaning, they generally seem to follow the requirements.) The "council rules" for Eagle all seem to deal with subjects other than the project itself.