Fusing a rope.

[runintherain]

Fusing a rope is a tenderfoot requirement. Do you require the Scouts to have their Firem'n Chit before using a lighter or candle to fuse a rope for that tenderfoot requirement? This came up at our latest campout for some younger scouts trying to earn tenderfoot.

 

The Firem'n chit requirements are all second class requirements. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[UCEagle72]

Nope.

[Horizon]

Nope, but we also don't wait on the chits either. I have Instructors (senior level experienced Scouts) in the Troop who ensure that every new Scout is cornered and learns & earns all of their chits ASAP. The safe use of knives, axes, hatchets, fire, and saws is part of our break-in process for new Scouts in the Troop.

[Stosh]

There's a lot more to lighting a candle and fusing a rope being taught in the Firem'n Chit. A 2 second lesson on fire safety should suffice and a full Firem'n Chit training later on. Same applies to the Totin' Chip. Don't need to do the whole program with axe and saw, and most Cubbies have already had the Whittlin' Chip training so they should be able to cut rope safely.

 

Stosh

[runintherain]

Thanks, for the responses. Now the real tricky question I should have asked earlier. Is there any BSA documentation to support allowing someone who has not earned their Firem'n Chit to fuse a rope. I agree with you all. However, we had some ASMs who saw it the other way and were a little irate about it. One ASM was the father of the kid trying to get that requirement signed off. He is also the District Executive. Honestly, I was worried they were going to have ago at each other over it.

 

Would like to address it at our next adult leaders meeting.

[clemlaw]

I don't think we had Fire Chits when I was in Scouts, so I guess that just came under the category of common sense.

 

And maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything in the G2SS that specifically says scouts need to earn those cards. If it's not, then it seems to me that it comes down to being a troop rule.

 

And since it's a troop rule, it seems to me that a common-sense exception would be appropriate.

 

Incidentally, when I was a scout, using a match to fuse a rope seemed vaguely like we were doing something that was forbidden, not because matches were dangerous, but because of the prevailing view then that scouts ought to "whip" a rope. I haven't whipped a rope in 40 years, but whenever I burn the end of one with a match, I take a look around to make sure my old scoutmaster isn't watching (even though I probably learned it from him in the first place).

 

I'm relieved to know that it's "legal" now.

[gcnphkr]

Read them the Firem'n Chit

 

"This is to certify that [name] can carry fire-starting materials and build a campfire."

 

Fusing a rope requires him to do neither of those.

[perdidochas]

Clemlaw,

 

Whipping and fusing are both Tenderfoot requirements now. Scouts still need to learn to whip the ends of ropes (not all ropes fuse).

[The Blancmange]

 

Is there any BSA documentation to support allowing someone who has not earned their Firem'n Chit to fuse a rope.

Search the whole G2SS; you won't find anything about a Firem'n chit or Totin' Chip.While the language for each of the two purportedly give the scout the "right" to use the respective tools, I consider those as optional devices for troops to use to regulate the safe use of fire or woods tools; not a bad idea, but they are by no means required. And certainlysilly torequire when under the close, immediate supervision of a SM or ASM.

I hope that the DE wasn't on the side arguing that this was a requirement. If that is the case, your district has bigger problems.

[Stosh]

If the Tenderfoot requirement expects a heat source of some sort to be used to fuse the rope, then proper training in that heat source needs to be part of the instruction. I have fused ropes with matches, candles, campfires, Coleman lanterns, lighters, and even light bulbs. For the Tenderfoot guys I would start out with a candle only because I don't want matches and butane lighters in the hands of a half dozen boys inside a building. As they get older, they'll understanding the importance of fire safety (Firem'n Chit) and can adapt their methods of fusing ropes accordingly.

 

Stosh

[The Blancmange]

 

For the Tenderfoot guys I would start out with a candle only because I don't want matches and butane lighters in the hands of a half dozen boys inside a building.

What a killjoy.  You probably don't let them use chainsaws either. 

[perdidochas]

I guess I'm living on the edge then. I let Webelos use lighters to fuse cord just last night.

[JMHawkins]

Incidentally, when I was a scout, using a match to fuse a rope seemed vaguely like we were doing something that was forbidden, not because matches were dangerous, but because of the prevailing view then that scouts ought to "whip" a rope. I haven't whipped a rope in 40 years, but whenever I burn the end of one with a match, I take a look around to make sure my old scoutmaster isn't watching

 

A master Rigger by the name of Brion Toss calls fusing a rope the "butane backsplice" and looks down on it too.

 

I'm with Blanchmange on this, if a DE was arguing a scout couldn't, under supervision, use a candle to fuse a rope, you do have bigger problems. The fact the argument got so heated (so to speak) is a bit worrysome too.

 

[sailingpj]

I always learned to both whip and fuse the end of the line. The trick is to get some good waxed thread though. The wax melts and the thread shrinks a tad and just cinches down on the line. Then the wax hardens into a nice shell around the whipping, plus some of the wax leaks into the line and helps keep the whipping from slipping off the end.

 

Then when you fuse it you don't want that black charred mass on the end of the line, it looks bad and sometimes makes the line difficult to stick through a block. You want the end to be a nice light brown, about the color of a perfect marshmallow.

 

btw, not to put down your rigger, but I have known plenty of riggers that consider it standard practice to fuse the end of a line.

 

As for the requirements, I don't know them but common sense says that a match, lighter, or candle is okay to use without a bunch of training. If you are that worried about it use those matches you can strike anywhere and hand the box to the responsible scout teaching with the suggestion that he only hand out one at a time.

[JMHawkins]

btw, not to put down your rigger, but I have known plenty of riggers that consider it standard practice to fuse the end of a line.

 

He lists four objections (this is from The Complete Rigger's Apprentice):

 

1. melting synthetics gives off toxic fumes and molten sludge

2. the fused end is hard and sharp and "will slash away at sails, brightwork, and crew."

3. They crack without warning ( whipping will show some wear first).

4. "They are ugly."

 

He also notes that a couple of constrictor knots are nearly as quick. I'm not so worried about 1 and 4 (do it outdoors and don't worry about the looks), but 2 and 3 can be problems. Now, all that said, I use the butane backsplice occasionally myself (don't tell!).