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Thomas54

Eagle App has some poor wording and grammatical errors

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Scoutfish, I don't think anyone here is remotely suggesting anything of the sort. You seem to be reading into this. As I have stated, along with others, this process is the culmination of the Scouting advancement ladder. The Scouting organization as a whole has placed a certain and specific value on the concept of being an Eagle Scout. I simply think that the mentoring process should include providing the Scout with all the tools required to put his best foot forward and present himself in a literate and appropriate light. I did not say the mentor, SM, parent, or anyone else should rewrite the application/workbook, rather they should assist him in finding the correct way to edit it if he asks for assistance.

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Communications skills are indeed critical to leadership. The most highly skilled Patrol Leader isn't going to have much luck taking his patrol on a wilderness trek if he can't articulate the plan to anyone. But that's really not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a formal project proposal much like is done in the business world. It's not a test of a Scout's communications skills with his peers, but rather a question of how well he can communicate with the adults who must approve the project.

 

My question is whether any of the people who sit in judgment of the writeup themselves ever make errors in grammar or spelling, or occasionally write a convoluted sentence. If you're going to go after someone's writing, you need to be darn sure that your own is absolutely perfect. Some of the creative spellings I've seen from Scouters make me cringe in agony, and some of the writeups in my council newsletter are just atrocious.

 

We have lots of different educational and literacy levels among Scouters, just as we do among Scouts. (Remember, a 14-year-old's Eagle project writeup is probably going to vastly differ from a 17-year-old's. They shouldn't be held to the same writing standard.) Why do we expect absolute perfection from our Eagle candidates when we don't from our adult leaders and professionals?

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A Scout should be expected to do his best on his ELSPW write-up - regardless of age or ability.

 

It is up to us, as adults, to motivate him and guide him so that he does put his best into it. For some, the best may yield eloquent prose. For others, a struggle for complete sentences. It is up to us to know the Scouts stengths, weaknesses, abilities, etc. so that we have an idea of what their "best" effort may accomplish and act appropriately in our roles as Scoutmasters, Eagle mentors and Advancement Chairs.

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"Why do we expect absolute perfection from our Eagle candidates when we don't from our adult leaders and professionals?"

 

ABSOLUTELY! Shortridge just nailed it!

 

Now, I am not saying that it should be written in crayon at a first grade level, but just as BSA ensures that the program is deliverd at an age appropriate level, we should do likewise, which means expecting age appropriate write up in return.

 

If a 14 year old write it up, look at it with 14 year old eyes. If a 17 year old writes, look at it with 17 year old eyes, not 30, 40 or 50 year old eyes, otherwise, you are doing a disservice to the boys themselves.

 

Me, well, It's no shocker that I probably mispell at least 2 words a post. But so far, everybody has been able to understand what I wrote.

 

Same for the Eagle application: If you understood it enough to know what was meant and how it should have been spelled, then the application did it's job: it informed you of the intent of the applicant.

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By profession, I am a technical writer. I know good writing. Clear communication is important. That includes spelling, grammar, and organization.

 

I get very frustrated with Eagle candidates who can't string a few sentences together into a coherent thought, who leave out major chunks of information, and never learned subject/verb agreement or how to conjugate a verb.

 

I used to pull my hair out trying to teach these guys English writing. I have given up. I am not a school teacher (bah!). If you listen to the way they speak, it's little wonder that they can't write. (Actually, the written communications that come home from teachers are uniformly pretty bad, too.) It's a sad commentary on today's youth when they can't recognize problems with their writing - EVEN WHEN IT'S MARKED UP IN RED.

 

//EXCUSE

I don't worry about perfect grammer and speling on sights like this 'un.

//END EXCUSE

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I think we also teach boys to use the rescources they have available.

That said there is not a HS english teacher in America that would not help a student make the Eagle paperwork the best it can be.

 

 

 

Advise him to get with Mrs SOANDSO to help him complete the app , it is important.

 

You let this go by and the kid thinks filling in the college app is the same way.

 

 

WE all need the Cub motto when it comes to the Eagle process

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You let this go by and the kid thinks filling in the college app is the same way.

 

Wanna bet mom and dad are very involved in filling out the college app so the likelihood of major typos and grammatical errors won't happen.

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A Board really asked this?

 

"Who will take care of your project if you end up in an accident and are in the hospital for three months?"

 

I would have immediately responded, "I expect the Board to take up the slack."

 

Yeesh, what a bunch of power mongers.

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A Board really asked this?

 

"Who will take care of your project if you end up in an accident and are in the hospital for three months?"

 

Yeah this is really morbid! I would have answered "No one. The project will be there when I get out of the hospital."

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In our Troop, we have a Life to Eagle advisor who works with the Scout through the process. He is very meticulous. He takes to role of a proof reader as well as a fact checker (ie. are all dates for PORs and MB correct?) Some Scouts hate the whole process and thinks he is too rigid. But in the end we have never had an application or project write-up returned or questioned. He works with boys so that they see the importance of what they do so that they work hard to do a good job. Afterwards they all come to appreciate his assistance.

 

In the end, I get to read the apps and proposals for content and never need to worry about gramatics.

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Some Scouts hate the whole process and thinks he is too rigid. But in the end we have never had an application or project write-up returned or questioned.

 

Never had one returned ever? And this benefit's the Scouts how?

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I have no answer to the original question

 

instead, I have another question

 

my son is a Life Scout and working on completing some merit badges before going forward with a project. So we haven't seen the form you all are talking about....

 

so my question is - does it have to be hand written or can it be done on computer?

 

my son has horrible, awful, terrible, all those kind of words, hand writing... been that way since kindergarten - it's become a bi-annual thing to go to parent/teacher confrences and say "other than his hand writing what does he need to work ok"

 

and yes, we've done everything, tried everything, etc to improve it. And it has improved - I'd say his writing now looks like a 3rd grader! And he is so happy that he is now in high school and other than his Algebra class he is allowed to do his homework assignments on computer. Though his teachers asked him to demonstrate how bad his writing really was.

 

anyway, just curious

thanks in advance

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The Eagle Application can be downloaded from www.nesa.org. It is not yet a "fillable" pdf form, and is intended to be be filled out by hand. Sort of like Motor Vehicles forms or some standardized test sheets where you have to fill in one letter per block. The hardest part is squeezing in the contact information for potential references. Of course, signatures have to be manual - no digital signatures yet!

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